Sorry Steve B, I think you are wrong for censorship

[Martini...LB]

Ref T Shirt Comments topic.
 
As a member of this forum I believe I have a right to express myself, as long as it is not degrading, sexual etc.

I do not think you are correct in closing the topic above without a few more opinions, even support, perhaps, for Rick and JPC.

Unfortunately there has been an error, which Del felt, I believe, was very upset about although it was not his fault. Before he had a chance to talk to the printers he was in the stocks and was initially not able to account for what the outcome was to be after discussion with the printer.

I find it very strange that two guys can go off on one as easy as this seems. PFT perhaps? (Pre flight tension)

JPC, this comment is pretty silly, sorry if that is too strong, they are not going to phish CA when they can try it on PayPal clients (I know).
I quote 'At present it is just a holding/search page, but if they are on the ball and start seeing lots of hits because people are going to their site because they have seen the back of our shirts then they could easily put a Phishing, Gambling or Porn site up there which we would not wnat to be associated with.' I do not think 100 T shirts are going to be that noticeable in a 250k crowd.

Ok, so why no complaints from our Dutch friends?

Why so few complaints from the rest of the guys who are going to Sebring and have these shirts? (I have them and am not going to Sebring, perhaps I should claim some air tickets off Del?)

This is not meant to be offensive to either RIck or JPC, but I do think both the reaction and the censorship to be wrong.

Rick, JPC come out and play again, it is supposed to be fun after all... Steve, don't pee on my tent on the way back from the Stella bar.

>Martini...

[Steve Pyro]

Because I was trying to avoid this.

http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=8254.msg110545

[Martini...LB]

Because I was trying to avoid this.

http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=8254.msg110545

I think it was on the cards Steve, all that is left now is to pick up the toys.

Do you think a bad day at work comes into it?

And what are our Dutch and American friends going to think of this?

>Martini...

[jpchenet]

Ref T Shirt Comments topic.
 
As a member of this forum I believe I have a right to express myself, as long as it is not degrading, sexual etc.

I do not think you are correct in closing the topic above without a few more opinions, even support, perhaps, for Rick and JPC.

Unfortunately there has been an error, which Del felt, I believe, was very upset about although it was not his fault. Before he had a chance to talk to the printers he was in the stocks and was initially not able to account for what the outcome was to be after discussion with the printer.

I find it very strange that two guys can go off on one as easy as this seems. PFT perhaps? (Pre flight tension)

JPC, this comment is pretty silly, sorry if that is too strong, they are not going to phish CA when they can try it on PayPal clients (I know).
I quote 'At present it is just a holding/search page, but if they are on the ball and start seeing lots of hits because people are going to their site because they have seen the back of our shirts then they could easily put a Phishing, Gambling or Porn site up there which we would not wnat to be associated with.' I do not think 100 T shirts are going to be that noticeable in a 250k crowd.

Ok, so why no complaints from our Dutch friends?

Why so few complaints from the rest of the guys who are going to Sebring and have these shirts? (I have them and am not going to Sebring, perhaps I should claim some air tickets off Del?)

This is not meant to be offensive to either RIck or JPC, but I do think both the reaction and the censorship to be wrong.

Rick, JPC come out and play again, it is supposed to be fun after all... Steve, don't pee on my tent on the way back from the Stella bar.

>Martini...

Martin. It is supposed to be fun, but I don't think slagging people off is Fun!

Further comments on here, and comments by Chris24 over on Sebring Fans forum as well just fuels the problem even more!

Fact, I am not willing to pay out £85 of my hard earned money for something that was wrong and not what I ordered!! If your order was for more than just one or two shirts you might feel differently as well!!

The Dutch guys haven't made up their mind yet. I have their shirts and am waiting to see if they are going to Sebring with me or going back! They might yet cancel. They might keep them. It's up to them.

Rick's order and my order accounted for 11 of the 34 shirts, the DfH order accounts for another 12. Gab and Canada Phil won't have had theirs yet.

So far you, Bob and Smokie have agreed to accept them. I believe that is 6 shirts, so at the moment more have been cancelled than accepted.

And for what it's worth, the t-shirts are made from Inkjet Printed Iron On Transfers with one instruction label saying do not iron and one saying that you must iron it, and the images and etxt on mine are more lopsided than the URL was on the back of Bob U's Discovery at Donnington! However I've already told Del I'll keep that one and as far as I am concerned that's the end of it!

[Martini...LB]

JPC, your comment is fair. I did not know of the reason for the delay in the Dutch guys comments.
As to the standard of the shirt printing I received and opened my pack today but did not look closely. I do now see what you have mentioned and am a little disappointed as I have used 'Iron On' to adorn my shirts for a number of years, only to find that the wife irons them and they stick together. Not sure if this is the same principle.

Regards, stay with us...

>Martini...

[Pieter]

I'm not speaking on behalf of the Dutchies here. Hell, I didn't even order one because I have 2 CA polos already and that's enough for me. I would like to give my opinion on the case however. I think everybody who cancels their order because of a misprint or low quality is in his right, no matter how hard the printer worked to get them done, because that's what he's paid for.

On the other hand, it's such a tiny mistake that a discount on the misprinted t-shirts should do. CA is a non-commercial community, so no real damage has been done. It's not that CA relies on advertising and would therefore suffer from less traffic due to a few misprints.

The mistake has been made and some sort of compensation seems in order (half price for the misprints seems fair), but I really don't understand all the fuzz and it really isn't something to get upset about. It's not like you're low on beer or something.

[smokie]

I've had a read through the thread - I have to say I don't understand why people got so uptight over it. I don't see any really offensive remarks - there are one or two where the poster should have recognised the sensitivity of the situation and saved his breath, and one or two which supported one side or the other in a rather unnecessarily extravagant or forceful way.

Steve was, in my opinion, right to lock the thread as clearly people were getting overheated on the issue. I don't regard that as censorship; it was a reasonable attempt to carry out the moderator role of maintaining standards. There was nothing more to be said that hadn't already been said, and it's actually pretty boring watching people slugging it out in a thread - which probably explains why folks drop in with "trolling" remarks, to try to make it more lively.

Lastly, I'll check with Del that he is coming up with a response which hopefully will satisfy all parties, and, most importantly, not cost him anything personally.

[Matt Harper]

This whole debacle made me chuckle for the first time - in a very long time, on Club Arnage. It's a terrible shame that as soon as a topic that creates a good bit of heated debate arises, it's just as swiftly smothered by the Smokie/Brown Nanny State.
The spelling mistake on the shirt is hilarious, but equally (stupidly) inept. CA tee-shirts are a bit naff really - they are, you know - a bit crap, when all's said and done. That's not to say the efforts of the creators is anything less than admirable - it's the concept of a tee-shirt so that we can all be buddies together that's a bit peculiar to me.
While I'm having a go - what's happened to this bloody forum anyway?
It used to be funny, barbed, thought provoking, insulting, uncouth, honest.
Now it's all committees (I said there'd be trouble once we had a f*cking committe, didn't I), locked threads, pussy-footing around delicate sensibilities and flouncing-off in a strop.
There are some great people (and a handful of ar$eholes) who contribute on here - come on, let's get the character and banter back.
Am I alone in my views on this subject?   

[goodduck]

I really dont want to butt in as I am not really a core member here and I have no real stake in this matter as i did not order shirt, but i will offer my perspective anyway. 

First and foremost, i have witnessed a forum i used to participate in self destruct to to a lack of civility and behavior that can only be described as e-drama. There is really no need for anything like that to happen here.

As in any economic transaction, if the product does not meet the standards set forth in the initial contract, the buyer has no obligation to make the exchange. obviously the details laid out by delboy suggest that it is not so black and white.

Nobody other than the printer should absorb the cost of the shirts that are not purchased.

I do not know a tremendous amount about screen printing and t shirt making other than my experience with 'iron on'. That being said, it seems that the printer might be able to fix the problem without having to reprint the entire shirt by either ironing on a new url or printing over the url with a dark blue background and a grey text or something. these costs should be placed on the printer.

i do not wish to stir the pot but only to offer some constructive advice.


EDIT
something like this



the shirt looks great by the way

[wadespeed1]

I am normally a lurker, but as I understand it the shirts were rushed for the benefit of those at the 12 Hours of Sebring. I'll be at Sebring and I'll be more than happy to take at least one the Club Arnarge shirts off of your hands. 2XL or better please.

PS. I like this site for the racing news and humor. Please don't f#$% it up with business.


Go team ECO Radical!!

[Chris24]

Got to agree about the censorship, Steve editted my last post so it only showed my last sentance.  The bits which he editted supported both Rick and JPC in their rights to cancel and served as an explanation on my comments about Rick throwing his toys from the pram (Because its not the first time he has spat the dummy when things didn't go his way) But thats called life and its how you deal with these things that define you as a person. It was an is nothing personal against anyone and like i said on my post, I don't want this to spoil a great trip to sebring and hopefully Rick and JPC won't let it come between us at Sebring.

As for my comment on Sebringfans.com, Its only fun, on a forum that is still fun, so lighten up and go and look for your sense of humour. Afterall its the first thing that needs to be on the top of your list of things to take to Sebring

[Paddy_NL]

Ok, so why no complaints from our Dutch friends?

Because I have asked the rest who've ordered on our own forum, and not everybody replied yet. So far it's somewhat 50/50.

I am not going to comment about the rest of the subjects. If you want to know my opinion, let's talk at Sebring.

[BigH]

So, to recap...

JPChenet has died. A terrible shame, but who can say they're not surprised, the way he abused his body.
The role of Fundraising Head has been taken over by a blind Canadian jazz guitarist.
Rick Cutler has gone fishing for porn sites.
Matt Harpers favourite biscuits are Brown Nannies, (I've not heard of these, and assume you can only get them in the States), and he dreams of being smothered in them, a la Ann Magret/baked beans. And who can argue with that?
The ACO are still searching for buried body parts on Maison Blanche.

And my anus is still 'orrible.
H

[Andy Zarse]

There are some great people (and a handful of ar$eholes) who contribute on here - come on, let's get the character and banter back.
Am I alone in my views on this subject?   

Nice to see I get a mention in the ars£holes category Matt. Though I'm saying this through clenched teeth, I find myself agreeing with your general comments though. And you don't hear me say that too often.

I've been a fully participating CAer since 2001, and a Le Manser since 1988 and feel I'm reasonably well qualified to speak out. For me, traditionally, CA is not about pathetic arguements over teeshirts. It was simply a place that likeminded individuals could have a natter about cars and sh*t and some healthy random banter online. It is also somewhere I've made some fantastic friendships across the world, ones that I hope will last a lifetime.  Essentially, CA was just a forum for 51 weeks of the year and it was closed down for LM week whilst some fairly random meetings went on between the various groups at Le mans, including at the Poo Bar. Then on our return we all told lies about what we'd got up too. Oh, and there was a fantastic CA piss up in London at Xmas, and even that's not happened for a few years. Looking back, it seems to me it was a far more fun place then too. Most of the chat these days is about teeshirts and group trips to various race meetings. Whilst this is necessary, it does make exceptionally boring reading for the rest of us and could probably be better done on other forums.

In the old days (christ did really I say that?) sometimes the online banter could spill over into personal insult and gratuitous nastiness; indeed Matt, Fax, Oldtimer, Monkey and many others including myself have torn ruddy great lumps out of each other on several occasions. It was great!! However, I believe we did it with a degree of mutual respect and friendship. What I've seen over the last few days has left me shaking my head. I'm not taking sides here on the rights and wrongs,  I guess the least said the soonest mended, so FFS lets bury the hatchet and move on guys.

I only wish this situation had never happened in the first place and i believe the increasing formalisation of CA is solely to blame. What is clear is that this formalisation has left it bereft of what made it such a fantastic place it was in the past, and that's something I'm quite sad about. So I propose ALL CA committes are closed down after this years's race, and yes that includes the charity committee. If people want to collect for charity then each group like DfH should do their own thing. I'll gladly stick my hand in my pocket at their friday night do. Then provided there's enough funds to run the CA server, that should be that. Wouldn't the calendar proceeds cover this?

No more teeshirts produced centrally. No more sh-it rows about printing errors. No more wasted time and angst. Let's move forward to the way we were.

[Doris]

There are some great people (and a handful of ar$eholes) who contribute on here - come on, let's get the character and banter back.
Am I alone in my views on this subject?   

No more teeshirts produced centrally. No more sh-it rows about printing errors. No more wasted time and angst. Let's move forward to the way we were.

Nicely put both of you.

Dx