Club Arnage

After a meeting today with the insurance company, I finally have a rough idea of the level of compensation I'm going to get.

This being France and there being laid down amounts for everything, it honestly isn't much.  However, I've long promised myself that I'll get a new set of wheels when the cheque comes through.

We currently run an ancient Fabia (11) whose clutch is on the brink of throwing in the towel for good and all and a Note which I bought with the cheque I received from the wreck of my Micra.  I now reckon I have a maximum of 25k€ to spend on car(s).  It's obvious I can't afford the Porsche I'd have loved but am tempted by a go-faster Renault.  A quick trawl around the net suggests that I could get a brand spanking new Clio RS for around 24k once I've paid all the new-car stuff (registration docets for a new one are about 1.7k plus another 1.3k as a tax disincentive to buying high performance cars here in France).  I've also found a Megane RS with 9k on the clock for 25k which of course involves none of the new car costs.

We could dump the old Skoda (rhd) and buy one of the above Renaults, or replace its clutch and get a new Megane RS and trade in the Note. 

What would you do?

Or maybe you've got a better idea for a bit of go-faster fun?  Bear in mind I have to have enough space to fit luggage plus a chair and/or mobility scooter into one vehicle or the other for long trips/holidays etc.

Bit off the wall, but if you need something big to take a mobility scooter, what about a used 2.5 S-Max, big car but it's got 225 hp under the bonnet, and handles amazingly well for it's size.
Fold down the rear seats, and it will take 2000L of luggage, or bails of straw.

Got to agree with Barry there actually - I drove a friends S-Max and was amazed at how well it handled for a car that has quite a high COG - excellent flexibility too - the seats do all sorts of configs dependant on what you're carrying.   

Personally, I'd find the cheapest garage possible, get the clutch plate replaced on the Fabia (don't worry about the rest) and keep it as a hacker - sell the note, buy an S-Max and keep the change for a lots of holiday fun. 

Or, I'd sell the Fabia and the note, buy the S-Max, and buy a small camper/RV to make the whole motor racing experience accessible and easy again.

Great driving experience or not the idea of an SMax leaves me cold in this instance although maybe a little way down the line it would appeal.  I'd like a couple of years of something with a bit of image and a lot of poke.  I've yet to read a poor review of the Meganne (in RS form, I mean) and the Top Gear (written) review said it was also really tractable for everyday so it is tempting - especially as even with less than 10k on the clock the price drops into my range.

I'm still thinking about the future (the cheque won't be with me for a month or two anyway) but I think the Skoda will get its clutch as it's worth more to us alive (Mr T still loves to drive it) as dead it's worth nothing at all here since it's an rhd.

If you're into a Megane RS, don't hesitate and buy one.  Since owning a performance car in Belgian means comitting a crime and paying unreasonably high taxes (thanks to the new government), a few friends of me bought an RS and they're all very happy with it.

Very nice as a daily driver, and useable on a trackday.  I've driven one a few weeks ago and was pleasantly surprised with it, and I'm a rwd addict.  Another car in that pricerange might be a Focus RS, which also is a great drivers car, but a thirsty one.   Bear in mind though that they won't have much space in the booth.  However, over here you can buy these cars without the back-seats (guess it should be able to get them like this in France also), which leaves you with a bigger boot but no more seats in the back.

Prices in Germany could be interesting too, most of the time lower than France.

I will never buy a Renault again. The reliability is pants and the electrics are really bad (and this is coming from a serial Alfa owner!). We now keep a 10mm spanner in the door pocket of our Megane so we can disconect the battery every time the electric handbrake decides to stay on (which is at least once a week). Our local dealer couldn't solve the problem either.

With £25k burning a hole in my pocket, I'd throw a few quid at the Fabia to get it back in shape and use it as a daily hack and then go out and buy myself a nice depreciation free classic car for use when the weather is fine (which you will get over there more than we do over here). Buy well, look after it and you should make a few euro when you sell on in the future rather than loose all your money on a bland eurobox in ten years time.

£25k will buy you a lovely classic which will be the envy of all your CA friends. A good, well cared for mid 80's 911SC can be found inside your budget. I look after several up here and they are really bombproof and require little more than routine servicing.

You have had a shitty couple of years Termie. You want a Porsche, then go get one girl. You deserve it!

Si

 :)
We're talking euros here, btw (thus £20k is more like it at today's rates, not 25.)

Given that we have rather less to play with than we envisaged, my main problem with an older classic (as much as my heart strings are being tugged) is what happens in the even of a problem.  Even second hand most of the high performance modern stuff here has at least a year's guarantee built in. 

Plenty of time for mulling.  Nice to dream.  I get alerts from the net on lhd Porkers in the UK so I haven't written the idea off altogether yet!

Thanks, Dottore, I will look at Germany.  Certainly they have a better selection of Porkers.  I didn't consider Renaults from there though as there are so many RSs on the website in France.  I'll give it a go.

I had a series of three Renaut Espaces one after the other as company car during my days as a wage slave. They seemed pretty reliable, but of course (at that time) they were made by Matra and not Renault.

Try mobile.de, also available in English.

tfft

Cheers.  Will give it a go. :)

bmw z3m coupe?

But only if you are a dentist or a hairdresser :-)

Although I would agree the ordinary z3 is a hairdressers car, I wouldn't include the M Coupe in that category.

I am neither.

Ms are another matter though, as Barry says.

Not an entirely serious comment.. just trolling beemer weenies <grin>

Seriously though, if you fancy a porker you shouldn't rule out a tidy verging-on-classic 951 or 944S2. Again a bit of a teezy-weezy machine but a sound investment.

And the z3 m coupe might have a bit of luggage space.

GRRRR  >:D !  Z3 M Coupe with S54 engine ... epic car !

E39 M5 maybe, big engine, big boot, all comfort and luxury you need and for sale for real bargain prices nowadays (somewhere between 10 & 15k € for a good one) ?  Don't know how high taxes are in France though.

This is the big snag with imports.  The carte grise (log book equiv) costs according to the bhp of the car.  If I buy 2nd hand in France and it's got new-style plates then I don't need to pay but anything that needs a new cg costs a bomb if powerful.  Even the ClioRS costs 2.3k to register for the first time(I kid you not.)

Monaro?

Skoda Octavia vRS estate?
Bit mainstream, not the wow factor of a proper sports car, but fast, fun, and practical.

More up Mr C's street than mine.  I've never liked the Fabia (very teutonic interior and claustrophobic - scuttle too high - for a short arse) but he loves it.  Not right off the list but not at the top.

Keep 'em coming! :)

Cayman, some say better than a 911, and cheaper.

My car of choice.  Not sure if the budget will stretch as they do hold their price.  I have to remember servicing costs too.  I've found a few in Germany but all around 30k plus another 3 or so for the cg.
Not yet ruled out!

What's the situation regards buying LHD in UK (cheap) and taking it over to France?

http://www.londonlhdcentre.com/lhd-car-detail.aspx?Make=Porsche&Model=CARRERA-996-COUPE-6-SPEED-LHD (http://www.londonlhdcentre.com/lhd-car-detail.aspx?Make=Porsche&Model=CARRERA-996-COUPE-6-SPEED-LHD)

http://www.lhdcentre.co.uk/cars/W376NFF/W376NFF.html (http://www.lhdcentre.co.uk/cars/W376NFF/W376NFF.html)

Now that's a hairdresser's dream car  ;D.
Watch out for early P 996, did have some enigine probs.

E46 M3 isn't bad either

My advice would be to go for a Porsche, even if you do not end up holding on to it as a long-term "keeper" - then you will not say "if only" at some later time.  

That's essentially what we did a couple of years ago, and that was with having to borrow the money rather than having hard cash to lay down.  There are plenty of cars in your price range, and even more if, dare I say it, you think about a Boxster which is a 911 from the rear door shuts forward?  The 911 style is great but, unless you are wedded to the idea of a tintop, a similar mileage Boxster S will consume only about half of your funds to buy, and will give you a ragtop for nice weather, a front and back boot, and mid-engine handling; tubular manifolds and a bypass exhaust get rid of the anodyne standard Boxster exhaust note.  

If you do go for a Porsche of whatever model, think also about the manual versus tiptronic decision, particularly if mobility of joints is an issue - it's the reason we went for the latter because the missus can't do the manual with her dodgy hips and we like ragtops anyway.  The gear change is much quicker and in "M" is done at full throttle - on your command - without lifting.  And it does what you tell it to, up or down the box, without randomly changing gear when it feels like it - the only time it won't is if you are daft enough to try and change down when the revs are already so high that to do so would over-rev the engine.  Or, of course, you can just stick it in fully automatic "D" whenever you like, which is particularly useful when crawling around town or in a traffic jam.....works for us.

MG Mark

Vic Elford has a Cayman.

I'm afraid we can't let you have just a Renault

How about a Subaru Legacy estate.  Quick, excellent build quality and optional roll cage, but no dealers in France I'll bet.  That does just leave the 3 series Touring, but I couldn't recommend a BMW to anyone, except the local drug dealer.  And the mad option.  Rover SD1 of course, but they don't make decent cars like that any more.  Mmmmmm  Volvo???

Land Rover Defender with a bloody big V8 shoe-horned in under the bonnet?

Audi RS4/RS6 [or whatever the estate versions are called]?

Golf VR32?

Alpina D3?

M5 Estate? Or for that matter anything with the big diesel engine chipped & ripped up to the max.  You might get half-decent MPG?

Jag XFR - Petrol version, 1 year old, massive depreciation down to a sensible price?

RenaultSport Clio 200 [without cup chassis]?

Paul/Landman

Blimey all this talk of powerful motors. We could barely keep up with her when she had the Micra. But as Mark says, a Boxter would suit you Mrs T ;D

If mobility is an issue, I would try the Porsche out for size etc first before considering one. I recently went in a friends Boxster and he all but had to push me out to help me out of the passenger seat when we arrived at our destination.

Deb,

If you need any advice on buying a Cayman, it might be worth having a word with Pretzel.He has had a Cayman for about a year now and absolutely loves it.
I do remember him saying that he test drove 911's,Boxters and the Cayman, and he said of all of them the Cayman was the best drive, hence why he did the deed and bought it.

Andy

What about the Porsche Cheyenne?

Large enough to be practical, Porsche build quality, and quick enough when you need it to be.

One of my chums has just bough a second hand, 55 plate I think 4.5S with about 50k on the clock and all the toys for about £13k.

Absolutely and aye for that, unless the ragtop is a must for you, because it is a more rigid mid-engine, tintop boxster.  ;D

Oh, and further on the manual v tiptronic question, the latter is generally cheaper in capital outlay, thus representing even better value for money.....  

MG Mark

Smashing chaps - I knew you'd come up trumps.  Giving me much food for thought.

GF - If it's good enough for Mr Elford, it's good enough for anybody! ;D

Lorry - Just a Renault. 265 bhp - are you kidding? :o :o  I have yet to read a bad road test of one.  What's more there are plenty about in France with 10k or so on the clock within my budget.  More practical than a Porker, especially with the rear two seats gone.  Still lurking near the top of my list. Even second hand I'd get a year's warranty.
EDIT : Volvo - well I have been mega impressed with them when being taxied back and forth - oddly more than I was by the equivalent Fords they share so much with.  Somehow the interiors and passenger seating positions worked better for a shorter person like myself.  One for the future, methinks.
  
Paul : Defender V8.  I ran one for several years.  Great thing - best tow vehicle I ever hand but Landies are quite tough to get in and out of.  Not to mention the tractability for every day.  Probably not.

Anything VAG - I thought about maybe a Scirocco instead of the RS Meganne but they lose out in every comparison test I've read plus nearest garage is in LM so less practical for servicing/bits etc (I know what a palava it is to get bits for the Skoda via the local bod.)  Never been a great Audi fan - apart from the really sporty ones (and I don't mean the TT - very hairdresser imo) they don't light my fire much.  A bit middle-aged bloke.

Souped up diesel estate is a deffo idea for the day I trade the more sporty job in after a couple of years (I reckon 60 is a good average age - for me I mean - to get a bit more staid and practical when the reactions really begin to slow down below danger level.)

Clio Sport - definately a possibility.   I'm going to discuss buying a new one with the local bloke and price that up.  There's also a Gordini available locally well within my price range (I could then keep the Note or even update and upgrade it a bit and just dump the Skoda) and with all the intro' taxes etc paid for. 7k on the clock and a year old.  Very tempted.

Gary : Tee hee.   >:D

Chris, Wishy : There's a circuit near Evreux which does track days.  They have both the Meganne and the Clio on site plus all three Porkers (911, Cayman, Boxter).  Pretty cheap so I'm going to hopefully book some time up there to try things out.  I can also test out all the Porkers at the LM Bugatti driving school.  On the cards as a thing to do, even if I don't buy a one in the end.  

Mike : Again the Cayenne is one of those vehicles I'd look at down the line.  But not for the immediate future.  There are loads of bargains about for sure but for a reason - cheap to buy but not that cheap to run.

MGM et al I have looked at loads of Porsches of various type numbers over the last couple of years whilst day dreaming!  I'm not averse to a soft top but wouldn't chose one above the Cayman if it weren't for the fact that the latter is less widely available and way out of my price range in most cases.  I have seen a couple of Boxters with (after market?) hard tops - are these a factory fit or does somebody make them?  Something to look into.  They certainly come into the reckoning.  Mark - I keep reading the post above - is that right?  Manual more expensive than triptonic? ???  Then I have to ask myself if I could get enough stuff in a Porsche to make it viable to take anywhere?   My little scooter comes apart but even so....  Whereas I could take a Meganne to Spa and get all I need into it, anything which is a true sports car rather rules that out.  On the plus side, I could do more fun stuff like local car meets,  LM open days etc etc with a Porsche.

Still mulling.  Thanks guys, this is all really helpful and lets me gather my thoughts a bit more.

My vote obviously would also favour the Cayman :-) As my friend Wishy says I tried a few other Porsche variants before finally deciding it was the one for me. A few points to add:

1. It is not quite the same as the Boxster (apart from the obvious). Engine power for the same capacity is up by around 10BHP and the suspension setup is subtly different, for the better.

2. Rear storage is even better than the Boxster as there is no space taken up by the ragtop. It really is surprising how much luggage it can swallow.

3. In the (nearly) 2 years I have had mine ownership costs have been pretty reasonable, for a Porker.

4. Residuals are not as good as they once were in these straitened times although have flattened off now, so the 2.7's will fall well within your budget. The 2.7 needs a bit more winding up but still VERY satisfying to drive quickly.

5. Cannot comment on the Tiptronic but the PDK is good (mine is a manual, but I have tried this shift option). Probably irrelavant though as the PDK versions will stray outside your budget.

6. Thankfully I do not have your mobility difficulties, but it is a challenge to get out of.

Notwithstanding the last comment take that track day test drive and give it a go. Your heart could well overrule your head, and you more than most of us will know - you only live once :-)

Excuse me... age has nothing to do with it, I am on my fifth and I started in my thirties... you are forgetting build quality and reliability which is improving year on year...

>Martini...LB

Debs,

Yup, a tiptronic in UK is around £1-1.5k cheaper than a manual; the price difference is caused by people who think that the tiptronic is just an automatic gearbox with an "M" function to provide an illusion of manual changes.  It's not.  It has a direct mechanical lock up in every gear except first, so the torque convertor is just used as a "clutch" only for the instant of a gear change.  Full power up changes, no slush, and normal engine braking when down changing.      

The factory hardtop is the bubble shaped one and there are aftermarket ones that make it look like a Cayman, but check prices.

Space really is not an issue- the missus and I went touring in France, Germany and Italy for 3 weeks a few days after getting ours and covered 3800 miles, camping every night, with everything we needed to live, sleep, eat and have clean clothes.  The front and rear boots take oodles of stuff, and the front boot is very deep too, so all manner of stuff fits in there. More useable front boot space in the 986 compared to the 987.  

Go look and see what you think - mine brings a big smile to my face every time I get in it and an even bigger grin when I drive it.  Was awfully thankful though that the gendarmerie's speed gun soon after Rouen last year was located at the start of a long straight bit........

MG Mark  
          

Cup Clio is fantastic dont buy a gordini or a silverstone as not worth the extra money IMO. Handle fantastic out of the box and go like stink!

Megane (or flying baguette as i call them ) would take my money tho as handle, can be good ish on fuel if driven sensible, handle well and stop on a penny. A friend has one, he drove from scotland with the wife and kids unloaded them in Anglesey, did a track day then drove home without a issue.

No, I guess that was unfair.  I suppose I mean it's a bit Captain Sensible for what I'm after at the moment.

Great feedback chaps.

The other vehicle in my sights is a Z car.  Few and far between over here but still possible with relatively few miles on the clock for the money I have.  The only Boxters I've found are years old in my price range, even from Germany.  Narac (Rouen) has one, for example but it is 15 years old with 100k on the clock. ::) - not to mention the fact that it's a truly revolting colour (I try not to be girly in this department but honestly - who ordered bright metalic green when it was new, ffs?)

Debs, you say the Renaults always come up trumps in magazine road tests, but that's because they are brand new. Within six months they start falling apart. Talk to any garage monkey or MOT tester and they will tell you just how bad they are.

@Kev.... You say your friend drove from Scotland to Anglesey, did a track day and drove back without problems? I should bloody hope so, it's the 21st century for gawd sake. I thrashed a 40 year old Alfa to Le Mans and back last year, a 1300 mile round trip, without any problems. I would hope that in the last 40 years that cars should be easily capable of such journeys without problems!

Some fair suggestions so far, but please give the Renaults a miss. If that's the kind of thing you fancy Debs, go for the VW, it's better looking, better built and will hold its value better. Forget what the magazines say, they are biased toward whoever are lining their pockets at the time.

I agree about that one.  However our Skoda had a lot of teething troubles out of the box and had to be completely repainted but that was all under warranty - nothing for the last 10 though until the clutch.  My 3 Nissans have run trouble free; our Pugs, Citroens, Toyotas, Rovers, Vauxhalls ditto.  In fact the only time we've had mechanical troubles  were with tatty old 2nd handers and the Fabia.

Given that the Renaults I'm looking at have all got a year's warranty (4 if I get a new one) then I guess it's less of an issue than the sheer fun aspect.  VW better looking?    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. :)

Deb,

We traded in my wifes Megane last October for a VW Golf. The Reggie had at the start been a good car, but over time.....well it cost a packet to keep going, especially on the electrical side of things. A Golf is all things to all men or ladies, well built, well spec'd.. GTI all the way, but avoid the 18 rims, harsh ride.

Sorry Jules but nobody will talk me into VAG. Doesn't light my fire at all.  I get all the sensible arguments but nothing they produce does it for me in the looks department .

Debs, if you want any info on the 350Z, I had one from new for 5 years before I bought the Cayman :-)

The more I know, the better. :)  AZ has(d) one too, I think.  On the plus side, I am very happy with the Nissan dealer for servicing etc.  Plus of course, I've run Nissans for 10 years now without a hitch - well apart from when I broke one ::).

Yes, I believe AZ has(d) one too - we discussed it at the time of his purchase if memory serves me correctly.

Pluses:

Cheap to buy, especially now.
Servicing costs quite low.
Quite a bit of torque.
Fun RWD handling and fitted with an LSD as standard (I thought it was really quite good until I bought the Cayman, but that's probably an unfair comparison).

Minuses:

Luggage capacity - rubbish! The rear load area is split by a huge strut brace making what available space there is difficult to use.
Fuel consumption quite poor if you drive it hard.
Build quality typical of a mass market manufacturer with some pretty cheap plastics here and there (and certainly not a patch on the Porker.)
Driving controls quite heavy to operate - mine was a manual. Steering quite heavy too, but pretty 'feelsome'.
Slight 'chest wig' image :-)

Still quite a good motor and there are still not that many big engined RWD cars around. More of a GT than a sports car though in my view.

Thanks - just what I need.
The Cayman of course is twice the price.   Nice idea but really just far enough out of my budget for it to be a real no-no.  I'll cry in my soup I guess but that's life.

The Z car's luggage space (if I can call it that) does put me off, I admit.

Totally silly and off the wall I also found these:

http://cars.trovit.co.uk/index.php/cod.ad/what_d.left%20hand%20drive%20porsche/id.1V1q1F141U6UT/pos.1/pop.0/

Daft but quirkily appealing. :)

Aahhh. A subject close to my heart. I had 911s for years and I have to say they are quite bullet proof. So much so, It is quite an experience watching a 911SC with 220,000 on the clock keeping up with Carreras on the Autobahn. Friends of mine used to get theirs (New ones) serviced at main dealers in Germany at a fraction of the cost of the UK. I recently bought my misses a Boxster S, and have to admit, rather enjoy driving it. I use indies PCT (Coventry) for servicing and it really is not that expensive.
May I suggest that you consider a 993. Last of the aircooled. Fantastic car and what a shape!!!! Not sure of prices over there, however they are on the increase here. Keep well away from early 996. Engines were prone to detonating at relitively low miles.
Whatever you choose, get a PPI done on it.
Now, you can get a Ferrari 348 for about £23K. A good indie will charge about £300 for a service and the later ones only need their belts changing every three years. Appreciate that there is not a vast amount of room in the boot, however there is a fair bit of room in the cockpit and behind the seats. Insurance is not that bad either. Used to cost me £180 from Saga.
Whatever is chosen, I hope that you both enjoy. You both deserve it.