Club Arnage

Heads Up for all you group b rally fans, BBC 4 Sunday 1st April 2012 21:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fcncc

From the producer of Grand Prix: The Killer Years and the Grierson-nominated Deadliest Crash: The 1955 Le Mans Disaster.

In the 1980s rallying was more popular than Formula 1. 'Group B' machines had taken the world by storm. De-regulation opened the way for the most exciting cars ever to hit the motorsport scene. Nothing like it has ever happened since.
'This is the fastest rallying there has ever been' - Peter Foubister.

For four wild and crazy years manufacturers scrambled to build ever more powerful cars to be driven by fearless mavericks who could handle the extreme power. The sport was heading out of control and the unregulated mayhem ended abruptly in 1986 after a series of horrific tragedies. This is the story of when fans, ambition, politics and cars collided.

'The fans were crazy. As the cars sped by the spectators ran into the road!' - Ari Vatanen

'They were playing with their lives'.

'To go rallying is madness. This was refined madness' - John Davenport

Featuring world champaions Ari Vatanen, Walter Rohrl, Stig Blomqvist, plus Michel Mouton, Cesar Fiorio,

Off to sky + it now 

Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to seeing this.

When you look at the WRC today you do have to wonder where it all went wrong. I did hope than Mr Todt would fix things being from a rallying background but as yet.....

I live in hope.

Si,

I think World Rallying is lost for ever, I cannot see it coming back to the same level of the glory years.  ::)

That's why I did not go and watch the BRC round 2 event in mid Wales at the weekend, 20 Fiesta's, Citroens C2's and a couple of Reggie Twingo's, nah I stick with the memories I have.

Jules

Thanks for the heads up on this, I would have missed it otherwise.
Remember those cars and their drivers with awe.

Just watched the trailer for this and after the last two programmes from the same people on FI and the Lemans Crash I will be ordering my copy as soon as

I drew up a manifesto for the revival of rallying about five years ago. I just wish it would be put into practice. It would revive the sport in no time at all. It was spectacular, affordable and had relevance for road car technology. It would bring every maufacturer under the sun into play and most importantly bring the spectators back.

The concept is based around common spec components to keep costs down. There would be a spec transmission and drivetrain package- a mechanical diff, rear wheel drive and a manual six speed gearbox devoid of any electronics, and a spec coilover, twin wishbone suspension package. A manufacturer would then supply any body shell from their range and a turbo 1600 or a 2500 atmo engine, and fit the spec trans and suss package. Aero and exterior bodywork would be free to make the cars look good but would be made using non carbon composites to save money. The engines would be cost capped and would have to be made available to privateers for no more than 20,000 euro per unit to avoid the use of exotic internals. A standardised turbo and ECU would used by all teams again to cut costs and prevent development budgets spiralling.

The events would run for a minimum of four days and include a minimum of 20% stage mileage run in darkness. Servicing would be restricted to 3 mechanics per entry and the total spares package minus fuel and tyres would have to fit in a two metre cube box. Mechanics and spares would have to fit in a Vito sized van and follow the event around the route- no centralised servicing to prevent an event staying in one place. Management cars, chase cars, tyre note cars etc would be banned. All teams would run a spec tyre too- if it doesn't suit the conditions then drive accordingly... Everyone is in the same boat.

There is much more to it then that, but I have it all written down somewhere.

The cars would be simple and quick and very spectacular to watch, the event would be spread out around the host country bringing in more spectators, who would then create a demand for more media coverage, which in turn would bring more publicity, more manufactures would follow. The manufacturers would have a platform on which they could be competetive without having to develop expensive suspension and transmission systems, or spend hundreds of thousands on composites, and have cheaper on event costs. The result is a very low publicity to cost ratio, which in today's world is just what is needed. The spectators and the media would have a cracking sport to follow once again. It's a win win situation for all involved.

At the moment it's dogged by huge costs, a lack of media interest and a lack of manufacturers. Something radical needs to be done, and done quickly.

Si

Si,

Some interesting thoughts there especially the idea about number of mechanics, total spares etc. Cars built to last from the start.

Similar to how all the teams ran in the Safari Rally in Kenya, they were built to last. although toyota did have a full time team in Kenya practicing IIRC ::). These days the components have such a short life span of a few stages, the cost is so high for team. I am sure Prodrive did some work some years ago on a standardised drive train package and gear box was that 4 x 4 though?

One thing they must get rid of is the current system of split times been sent to the crews mid stage, it should be flat out from the green light on the first stage, ban should also be in place for team members to be mid stage as well feed back the splits.

We should however keep chase cars, used to be a real hoot running a chase car on events I was not competing on ;)

We live in different times now Jules. The reason they gave us centralised service was to cut down on the number of support vehicles following the route. We still have management cars, tyre crews, timing crews etc darting all over the place though and some of these vehicles need to be shipped from event to event... Increasing costs and number of personnel on events. It also gives the greenies something to moan about.

We need a vast reduction of cost to make it more attractive to car makers. Building simple, rugged cars that are free from expensive technology not only cuts costs but makes the car more 'raw' which in return makes for a better viewing experience. One solution solves the other problem head on.

Group B rallying was the beginning of the end in many ways. The proposed Group S regulations that were canned in 1986 would have been a step forward, but we will never know for sure. The Group 4 era of the late 70's and early 80's were a real high water mark- the cars were reasonably affordable judging by the huge entry lists, and from a spectators point of view they were great to watch. Today's cars are much faster but less exciting to watch. A return to a simpler formula could bring back that excitement.

Si

No the only way to get the fans back is to make the cars, noisy, spit flames and fall apart (so fans can collect bits to take home) that is why we loved the group b days.

If you can't watch or record it at 9pm, it's repeated early Monday morning,  01:10 to 02:10.

Loved group B, But Group 4 MK1 and MK2 Escorts were the best, the every day mans car tearing up forest stages mmmmmmmmm. Add a smattering of Ascona 400's and Chevettes, Toyota Tureno GT, Alfa Romeo Veloce. Light weight, rear wheel dive, and cheap thats what rallying should be.

Really well made documentary, some candid  and frank views shown there by all interviewed. Well worth a watch and recording to watch again.

R.I.P. Henri Toivonen

Very interesting - and some of it quite terrifying to watch!

F

Good to watch and brings back loads of memories, the first rallies I properly went to watch as a teenager were at the height of group B, not just the Lombard but also the national breakdown and the manx. Crowds weren't quite as mad as Corsica and Portugal but mad just the same. Group A never quite got the blood going quite as well.

Carl

If anybody missed it, it's being repeated again on Tuesday, at 8pm, BBC 4.

I watched it but wasn't that impressed to be honest. A little sensationalist for starters, but mainly it failed to get under the skin of group B. There were too many factual errors in there too and some of the editing was poor. The commentary was bland and lacking in passion too.
The only thing that raised an eyebrow was Roland Gumpert having started dressing like Noel Fielding at some point in the last two decades.

I'm not sure where the 'Henri had Flu' story came from either. I have read on several occasions that Henri had had a huge argument with Cesere Fiorio the night before Corsica. Henri had spent the week prior to Corsica testing a Lancia Group C car and had set some very competetive times. His desire was to drive at Le Mans that year but Fiorio had spoken to the Lancia board to block his wishes.
 Henri and Fiorio were not talking to each other during the event and any attempt at slowing Henri, who had a comfortable lead after the first day, was met with defiance. He had a point to prove and despite several key team members trying to calm him down, he just pushed and pushed. The end was as sad as it was inevitable.

I still remember that day as though it was yesterday. It was a really hot day and I got home from school to find our house keeper just leaving. She got halfway down the path and turned around and said, ' oh, your father called earlier, said something about news on the radio, some racing driver has been killed, Henri something or other who races a Lancia'. I was devastated. Only six months before I had chatted to Henri at a service area in Buxton on the RAC. He'd hit a gate post earlier in the day and taken off half of the nose on the new S4 Delta. To conclude our all too brief chat he pulled off the lower splitter from the now discarded front end and signed it for me. He was my new hero and we cheered him on all week to a debut victory back in Nottingham four days later. Such a friendly guy, an amazing driver, and then just like that...taken from us in the cruelest way. Seems so long ago now. Bad times for sure, but many happy memories too.

RIP Henri. And thanks for the splitter. I still cherish it.

Watched the programme last night and laike the other two programmes it had some faults but overall it was the best thing that has been on the telly for ages, and i advise everyone to try and watch it, When I was younger Le mans was once a year but these rally cars seemed to be on the saturday sports shows almost every week and although i did not see them in action at the time i did get to see a few in rallycross and they were amazing.

I too watched it last night.

Some fabulous stuff, brings back memories!  ;D

As to the crowds, well what can you say except for OMG!

Good program. Those car's were monsters. The crowds's were mad though. I remember a story of someone finding part of a finger in the bumper of the car after one of the Portugal rounds :o.
Anyone remember Citroen's Gp B effort, the  Citroën BX 4TC!

Hi Lazy B, actually now that I think of it, I do remember either Autosport, or GPI reporting that Henri did have some sort of bug, and was under the weather that weekend.  Have to go dig them out, still hae them in boxes somewhere.  Doubt that it had any influence on what happened to he and Sergio, as you mentioned he was having problems with Fiorio and that probably had more to do with Henri pushing as hard as he was, even though he was leading by a street.  Did you read the MotorSport article several month's ago where they went back to Corsica, to the corner where they went off, to re-visit the day.  Interesting reading, the corner has been re-profiled, and the scorched treees have grown back, but you can see the remnants of the orginal corner.
Fax

I heard that story first hand (no pun intended). It happened in around 92-93 in Portugal and it was a Ford mechanic that found the finger. He was refuelling Delecor's Escort Cosworth and as he opened the tailgate something landed on his foot, he looked down and saw something shiny. Instinctively he reached down and picked it up only to realise it was a wedding ring attached to a finger with all the tendons still attached. They managed to get the ring back to its owner but the finger was scrap. The guy involved still works at M Sport.

I remember the Shitroen BX. A real lemon. Only did Monte and Sweden as far as I remember before being canned. JC Andruet drove it I think??