Club Arnage

Anyone watch the brilliant documentary on Richard Seaman last night on Channel 4?   Wonderful archive footage (much of it new to me) of the Mercedes and Auto Union cars,  factories and races of the mid-late 30s in Europe and UK.   Real hero material stuff !    

Saw the first few mins and taped the rest - looking forward to that when I get a few mins to myself late one night!

 ;D

Yes.

The footage of the British GP at Donington was truly amazing, as was the stuff from Avus.

I knew a little about Seaman before this but the words of a couple of his contemporaries and other people who actually knew him certainly brought the man to life. He was clearly very talented too.

It struck me he was a bit of a s**t though to have been SO single minded in wanting to prove his worth at the expense of family, and to have raced (effectively) for the Third Reich in times of extreme political turmoil and the threat of war.

The footage of him accepting a trophy from Hitler was uncomfortable viewing - so how was it for him?

Notwithstanding all that it's a shame so much of his career is not more widely documented.

I watched the Spitfire Ace programme after it.  It gave me the urge to save up vast sums of money and join the waiting list for a flight in the twin seater Spitfire - I've already got the leather helmet !

Yeah, left the tape running for that one too - gonna be a cracking bloke night when I get to sit down with a glass or two of Scotland's finest and watch the lot!

 ;D

And interestingly, just noticed that my spam filter deletes the reply notifications on this thread, presumably due to Mr. Seaman's name!!!

Yes, it's a problem this time of year.
Prevention is obviously the best thing, nice pants and some good quality trousers.
If it's too late, and it sounds like a bad case to me, then Nivia followed by furniture polish should do the trick.
H

There is a good article about Dick Seaman at http://8w.forix.com/seaman.html. Shocking to hear that he died at Spa-Francorchamps in 1939.  

It must be the cold weather H.  Thermal long johns and duct tape may help I reckon.

Pretty much agree with all of that Pretzel.  What about the wreath that Hitler sent to his funeral............VERY uncomfortable to watch :(

Watched both the Seaman doc and the Spitfire Ace last night, from what I remember there is going to be a second part to the Spitfire Ace coming up. ???

Indeed - next week I presume, when the lucky ba***rds young chaps get to fly more, and one of them gets 9 hours throwing a real Sptifire around the skies pretending to be chased by Messerschmitts  ;D ;D ;D

- I seem to remember seeing somewhere before Christmas that a book was about to be published ??? ???

I think it's a four part series

Here it is:

Shooting Star: the Life of Richard Seaman - Nixon, Chris

"The story of Richard Seaman, the greatest British racing driver of the 1930s. It is an ultimately tragic tale of a handsome and gifted young man whose single-minded ambition propelled him to the very top of his profession."

Seems to be available for about £20

There have been a couple of good Seaman books published and the Chris Nixon book should be terrific, he's the guy who did "Mon Ami Mate".  A few years ago there was a nice article about Richard Seaman in Car magazine, had a pretty ghastly photo of his burning Merc wrapped around a tree at Spa.  Looks like his accident happened right about where the pits are located now, on the approach to the La Source hairpin.
Personally I've always been more intrigued by Bernd Rosemeyer, the forerunner of Rindt, Peterson & Gilles Villeneuve.
John

Very intresting program I thought, I also wondered what Seaman thought about being seen as a Nazi Puppet, I guess he was a VERY driven man.

A couple more programs next week that may be worth watching.
Mon 19 ch 5 8pm 'the crashes that changed Racing'
Fri 23 BBC2 9pm  'ecrents Of Enzo Ferrari'

Yes..... a particularly sour note to end the programme on but rather telling.

Re: the Spitfire programme I believe it is a 2 parter so don't miss the next (and final) instalment. Oops - got it wrong, it is indeed a 4 part series.

mgmark - thanks for the info  re: the book by Chris Nixon - that one is going on the list.

Sorry to change the thread, but H, you crack me up, sitting here at the pc tears rolling down my cheeks with laughter, the family think I am losing it, but what a great way to spend a few moments on this cold and windy January evening..
Yes watched both programmes, quality viewing, but must say Mr Richards nazi salute was a bit weak it was as if he was really uncomfortable with the suituation.

Saw the prog and thought it was v good.

I have a book on Rudolf Carrachiola and the accident that killed Seaman is described in quite some detail. Also have a book called the Silver Arrows on pre/post war racing Mercs. I'll have a look into it and see if there is anything to add.

BTW Steve, Leather Helmet is bad news generally but preferable to having Flying Helmet. Best cure IMO would be to sand it down with Coarse grade glasspaper, apply liberal doses of leather dressing (or even ox blood shoe polish), finally buff it up until you can see your own face in it. :o

Is that like the dubbin my dad used to polish his boots with ??

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE does anyone have last nights show on tape?

I will return it...

However brilliant he was,I still think that pony tail looks ridiculous
PM

Which show DR? If it is the Seaman stuff you are after I have it on video.  The recording quality is average but if you are happy with that PM me your details and I'll send it on to you.

PM,
I'm now confused. It said on the news this morning, he retired yesterday. So how come he died in 1938? Or does this explain the terrible game he had against Brazil in the last world cup?

Ta Preztel - will PM the details

It's a bit of a come down appearing on "They think it's all over" after such an interesting motor racing career  ???

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Just read the first few links on this. I didn't realise that there were so many xenophobes still,   I admire what he did, i reckon most people would want to drive for the best teams. As to  the guy with ponytail. He's got Brian robson syndrome

Err Sav old chap, it's not a case of xenophobia, but a lingering horror of the nazi party and what they represented.  Which made xenophobia look pretty tame.

I'm with Sav on this one.
The lad was a racing driver for chrissakes. I would imagine all he was bothered about was getting a drive and beating his team mates, just like any driver worth his helmet.
And as for the trophy presentation, how was he to know Adolf was going to go down in history as a thoroughly bad sport?
Putting myself in Seamans boots: I'm driving for the best team in the world, am a national celebrity, am being paid a fortune and have just started teaching the Horizontal Mambo to the teenage daughter of Mr and Mrs BMW. Just then, mum gives me a call and says it's about jolly well time I came home for tea.
Well, I know what I'd do...

Hindsight is indeed marvellous. As are hindquarters, but that's on another thread.
H
H

At the risk of getting too serious, I didn't mean to argue with his motivation, talent, love for wife, etc. etc.  It's just as you say H, hindsight is a wonderful thing.  I for one would not denegrade what he did (apart from treating his mother like a doormat) but I'm not going to leap up and down with joy about the nazi thing.

There has always been a great deal of speculation about how close Richard Seaman was to the Nazi party.
Its interesting that when Bernd Rosemeyer was killed in early 1938 in a record breaking attempt on the Frankfurt autobahn, the Nazi's wanted to make a huge production of his funeral, great hero of the nation sort of thing.  But his wife (a famous aviator in her own right) wanted none of it.  Rosemeyer despised the Nazi's and hated everything about them.  As you've said, they were racers, not politicians.
John

Sav,

Like Gibber I would like to distance myself from the label 'xenophobe'. There is no one more European minded than me. Maybe hindsight was clouding my thinking, but according to the documentary, Seaman was in correspondence with people high up in the British political establishment so must have been aware of the likely motives of the Nazis.

I agree with Big. H in general though. He was a racer through and through, not to mention having a pop at Miss Popp.

I was just wondering how he felt in his conscience.

Due to the tragic nature of his death none of us will ever know.

 I agree, mines a large whiskey at Brians bar.

Would that be a Jamesons or a Bushmills?

bushmill green label, although on the Irish whiskey I wouldn't say no to a Paddys either. nbut as big H is known to say wishhkey hic, a large one

Mine's a Glenmorangie  ;)

It would be what ever the famous Sav brings, we would supply the glass.we are not proud.

Ahh, then that would be a Whisky (no e). Pedantic aren't I ;)

Mine would be a laphroaig ;D

Whisky OR Whiskey would be fine by me  :-\

Yup, go along with that one  ;)

Brian, after your marvellous hospitality last year, I think the whisky's on me, I must owe you at least a bottle.
There'll be more than Ernie's ghostly gold tops a-rattling in their crates if Savs got anything to do with it.
H

H, cant wait getting excited already, have just spoken to Sav on the phone was suprised that he was sober.

got to stay sober.....ish at work. lets have a whisky. I look forward to it al no e that's only for the Irish whiskey.  tasting session at brians or mine. I shall bring the AR AR AR ARDBEG lagavulin and a willingness to test everyones. ilook forward to with great trepidation. sorry anticipation.

I'll have a port (when February comes around)  :-[

The video is going in the post first class tonight.

I think I set it at the start of the programme but if you see something else (celebrity fat club or some other nonsense) then just search around, it's definitely on there.

Don't worry about returning the tape - it's hardly worth the postage. I'll settle for a beer in June though  ;)

Thanks again Pretzel!  Top bloke award for January  ;D

I'll bring a case or two in June!