Club Arnage

Club Arnage => General Discussion => Topic started by: mgmark on November 01, 2006, 10:32:30 pm

Title: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: mgmark on November 01, 2006, 10:32:30 pm: Dear All,

Peter has kindly suggested (thank you) that as I am probably the senior serving regular contributing regularly to the forum, it would be appropriate for me to start the thread on this subject.

Now that November has arrived, the clocks have gone back, a cold north wind is blowing, and darkness exceeds daylight by an uncomfortable margin, please keep a spot warm in your hearts and minds as we approach 11 o'clock on Saturday 11 November, which is Remembrance Day, with the various parades and services then held the following day.

Men and women alike fought for our freedom during the two World Wars and, equally, there are many who have lost their lives in all the conflicts since then to the present day. With many, many of the soldiers, sailors and airmen, numbering in their thousands, from UK's Armed Forces on duty in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans and other trouble spots around the world, remembering them all is as important as ever and I ask simply that you do so.

Please reflect in your own way, just for a couple of minutes at the time, in respect for them. Remember events, people and times, friends, relatives, or stories that you have heard, that have touched a chord. There are plenty such that I would rather not have to remember, but equally, they always swiftly raise another one that brings a fond inner smile. Importantly, it is a chance to keep the faith for those whom we have lost, as they have paid the ultimate sacrifice where we have not, and to pass that faith on.

Again, I am grateful to Peter for finding this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtl5kmWrFLg.
Do please watch it and ponder - there should be faces that are familiar to you from the news recently - and they have families who are bewildered and bereft. Once you have watched it, if you haven't done so already, please buy a poppy, wear it with pride and contribute to the good work of the British Legion.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/content/Who-We-Are-508920.shtml

Thank you, and please, please, let us keep politics out of the thread. This one is for the people we remember.

MG Mark

They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: iomac on November 01, 2006, 11:11:16 pm: There has been a debate in the media about "how early is it acceptable to wear a poppy?" This kind of takes away from the purpose of buying a poppy - it is not a fashion accessory but a tribute that each and every one of us can wear that shows how much we appreciate the actions of those that have given their lives during the conflicts that our armed forces have been involved in.

I must apologise about the lack of punctuation but feel that the point should be made - a poppy is for remembrance not just a fashion accessory!
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Martini...LB on November 01, 2006, 11:12:46 pm: Thanks Mark

>Martini...
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Rusty on November 02, 2006, 07:17:08 am: Well done Mark (and Peter)

Very touching video.

Rusty
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: MIKE C (Liverpool Boys) on November 02, 2006, 09:35:46 am: My wife and I always buy a Poppy as soon as they start. I have friends who fought in Falklands war, which has now been over shadowed by the present conflicts. But we must remeber all the young people who fight or have fought for us. The Poppy is not, as already said a fashion statment, but a mark of respect to all of them.

Mike
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: termietermite on November 02, 2006, 10:18:45 am: This thread brings to mind the grave of an American soldier, Onais Martin, which is on the road between Nogent le Bernard and Bonnetable (the road is named after him) - North of Le Mans. He was the only American to be killed in this area when it was liberated. Every year, on the anniversary of his death, fresh flowers and wreathes are laid by the locals and the rest of the time, the grave is beautifully tended and looked after. I for one, find this quite moving.
The poppy argument is, as has been said, totally spurious and reflects badly on those who bring it up in the first place. Surely it's missing the point. Wear your poppy with pride - whatever the date.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Doris on November 02, 2006, 10:31:53 am: Quote from: termietermite on November 02, 2006, 10:18:45 am
Wear your poppy with pride - whatever the date.

Well said Deb. I wear mine in April as the 25th is ANZAC Day when we Kiwis and Aussies come together to remember those who fell at Galipoli in WWI.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Robspot on November 02, 2006, 11:23:35 am: For anyone who maybe doesn't usually buy a poppy or particularly people who like their mobile phones you can download a poppy wallpaper from the British Legion website. It costs £1.50 with all funds raised going to the Legion.

http://tinyurl.com/y85xnb
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Robbo SPS on November 02, 2006, 01:00:46 pm: I was the first at my station to wear a poppy, and we all now wear them. We put a min donation of £1 per poppy in, and my Police car had a big one on the grill until 1632hours yesterday, when it flew off down the road.....

I will be about on the 11th at work, and it will be a proud day for the vets.

Remember who you are and why were are still here enjoying life.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: keithk on November 02, 2006, 01:46:19 pm: November is always a strange month for highs, lows, with Piglet’s birthday and the anniversary of my father’s death, but I prefer to remember his birthday 24 June 1918.

My Father signed up in 1938 at Warley in Essex and was part of the British Expeditionary Force (BEF) in Belgium near Spa. When Poland was invaded some of BEF got cut off by the advancing German army and were ordered to surrender. My father’s response is not recorded but it appears that he refused and walked his platoon of men south through France to Marseilles with the assistance of the resistance who got them on a fishing boat and home to England.

He then became part of the Reconnaissance Corps and was shipped off to the dessert commanding a “Brengun” carrier on deep in the dessert reconnaissance.

Then to Italy and Anzio where he lost a dear friend a young lad from Yorkshire (Stanley Barker) who got nearly cut in half by machine gun fire and died quite soon after. My mother stayed with his family for a while during the blitz, Dad never forgot that lad and spoke only once of his death some 60 years later crying as he told me the story. He went on to Monte Cassino and Rome about a year later the guy he signed up with (Bill Hawkins) was killed as they crossed the Rhine.

Stanley Barker was killed 22nd March 1944 aged 19, my birthday is March 25th
I went to a camera fair some years back and had an uneasy feeling all day. It was only talking to my mother later that day, I discovered that my father had joint up at Warley barracks in Essex in 1938 and that the only buildings left were the water tower and the Gymnasium. The Camera fair was in the old gym…..
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Steve Pyro on November 02, 2006, 11:05:18 pm: As an ex marine engineering officer in the Merchant Navy, can I add (as I always do at this time of year) that we also remember the civilians and members of non services organisations that also have lost their lives for their country during times of conflict.

These include (but not limited to), those of the British Merchant Navy, the civilian fire and police services who sadly died during the Blitz, factory workers assisting the war effort etc.

On a personal note, I was 'at sea' during the Falklands War. The shipping company I worked for provided 3 vessels to the task force, 2 anchored amongst the frigates and destroyers in the Falklands, and one stationed at Ascension Island on 'standby'.
One of the vessels was in the adjacent anchorage to the Atlantic Conveyor when it was hit.
I've also seen first hand ship attacks by air to surface missiles in the Persian Gulf during the Iran / Iraq war. I'm not embarrassed to say it shook me profoundly and made me think of those in earlier conflicts who had endured so much suffering and loss whilst at sea.

We will remember them ............
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: monkey on November 03, 2006, 02:42:22 pm: I will remember them.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: gibberish on November 03, 2006, 02:56:52 pm: Always reminds me of being on active service (RNR) in the Mediterainean when we heard about the General Belgrano being sunk at the start of the Falklands war. Many lives were lost that day (Argentinian) and you'd be quite suprised at how many chaps from our flotilla attended a memorial service for them the next day.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: mgmark on November 07, 2006, 09:26:52 am: About time this one hit the top of page one again. For anyone happening to be in central London on Saturday, the two-minute silence in Trafalger Square will be ended with the traditional playing of reveille by a lone bugler, together with a flypast by 4 RAF Typhoons.

MG Mark
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Ferrari Spider on November 07, 2006, 10:30:20 am: Just to add to Mark's comments, if you're unable to be in London, way not attend you local Remembrance Day service. You'll get a very warm welcome from members of the local British Legion Branch.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: termietermite on November 07, 2006, 10:31:05 am: It's a public holiday here of course. I have never understood why it isn't in GB too.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Bob U on November 07, 2006, 11:21:53 am: Good idea. There has been a campaigne over the last few years for more bank holidays to bring us into line with the rest of Europe. What better reason than Rememberence Day. A perfect date, bang in the middle of August bank holiday and Christmas.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Ferrari Spider on November 07, 2006, 01:05:01 pm: There is something in our national Psyche that does not recognise our people that have been involved in war/conflict. and I specifically mean all people not just the military. In comparison to say the French, Australian/New Zealand, USA/Canada, etc.

Mark and I have exchanged a few PM's concerning the current conflict/s fighting terrorism over in the great sandpit, it would mean a great deal if we as the general public or ex-serving people joined in with the remembrance day services, it would add to the growing consciousness and help elevate remembrance day and helping those that are affected.

When you go home
Tell them of us and say
For your tomorrow
We gave our today.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: fagey on November 07, 2006, 01:24:33 pm: having never been in the forces myself.. but both grandfathers fought and friends have served.. i always attend our memorial service at the cenotaph in st helier, and up till a few years ago was an associate member of the legion.

more people should attend as there seems to be a lack of young 'uns attending
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: Bob U on November 07, 2006, 01:55:03 pm: Quote from: fagey on November 07, 2006, 01:24:33 pm

more people should attend as there seems to be a lack of young 'uns attending

Most probably because of the "Dumbed down" version of history that seems to be taught in schools nowadays. If the young uns are not taught it as it was because it is not percieved to be politically correct, what hope is there for a Rememberance Day in the future.

History is exactly that, history, you can't change it. Teach it as it happened, if they dumb down the wars the same thing could happen in the future. We can't learn from our mistakes if no-one tells us we have made a mistake.
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: fagey on November 07, 2006, 02:07:56 pm: hear hear!!
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: mgmark on November 07, 2006, 10:09:25 pm: Quote from: BOB U on November 07, 2006, 01:55:03 pm
Quote from: fagey on November 07, 2006, 01:24:33 pm

more people should attend as there seems to be a lack of young 'uns attending

Most probably because of the "Dumbed down" version of history that seems to be taught in schools nowadays. If the young uns are not taught it as it was because it is not percieved to be politically correct, what hope is there for a Rememberance Day in the future.

History is exactly that, history, you can't change it. Teach it as it happened, if they dumb down the wars the same thing could happen in the future. We can't learn from our mistakes if no-one tells us we have made a mistake.

Exactly so, and because the tradition of commemorating it is not passed down the generations in quite the same way as it is in a lot of other countries, it is left to a variable curriculum to teach it. Mind you it's interesting to see that the first entry when you type "Remembrance Day" into google comes up with this http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Remembrance.html - well done to a junior school in Kent!

The barriers were being put up along the pavements in Whitehall today to prepare for the march past the Cenotaph. And all round the country, the old, the bold and a lot of the young will be getting ready too - it's the in-betweens that often seem to be absent, too busy to take a few minutes or an hour out of a day.

For the last couple of years it has been my privilege to take a flight of troops and lay a wreath on behalf of RAF Marham at Fakenham's Remembrance Day parade and service. Last year, there was a large tray of turf to one side of the memorial, with about 100 or so wooden poppy crosses planted in it. When I asked one of the WW2 veterans there what they were, he told me that he and his British Legion mates had noticed, when visiting church yards in the area, that there were a lot of Service graves marking the burials of people who were not from Fakenham, but who came from far and wide, and whose names did not appear on the traditional town war memorial or in the churches, because they did not come from Fakenham. They felt strongly that they should be remembered too and, in league with the local schools, visited the schools, talked about Remembrance Day and arranged to go with teachers and children to visit the graves, such that each grave was visited by at least one child the day before the Remembrance Day parade where they placed a poppy cross at the grave. Then, on Remembrance Day before the parade, the same children had gathered to place another cross in the tray at the memorial, having written on it the name of the person whose grave they had visited. They then stayed and watched the parade. Touched me deeply to say the least.

And Peter is right - whatever the rights and wrongs of what has happened or is happening out in the world at large, please do remember that in the Armed Forces personnel can't "put it to a vote" or say "nah, don't fancy that". We do what we do as best we can and, believe me, it means a great deal to know that we are supported - and a good way is for the "in-between" ages to be somewhere appropriate for a short time to show that support on Saturday or Sunday.

MG Mark
Title: Re: Remembrance Day 2006
Post by: rcutler on November 07, 2006, 10:35:50 pm: Quote from: mgmark on November 07, 2006, 09:26:52 am
About time this one hit the top of page one again. For anyone happening to be in central London on Saturday, the two-minute silence in Trafalger Square will be ended with the traditional playing of reveille by a lone bugler, together with a flypast by 4 RAF Typhoons.

MG Mark

I shall be working in London this saturday so will get up to the roof terrace to do my part.