Club Arnage

Any thoughts on the letter today about "Zoning" the sites?
I do notice that the "prime" spot for early arrivals in MB (Autosport Bus, Popemobile, Drinking for Holland, etc) is not even marked as usable!

oh dear, this was waiting to happen :'(

haven't got the mail yet, can you post the text?

Bit difficult without a scanner for the plan...

I have the MB plan. Basically it has been divided in to 5 areas -
A nearest the entrance/External toilet block (road side)
B in the same end - but the circuit side
C in the middle - road side
D next to that
E next to the Porsche Curves exit - but the section alongside the straight from the Porsche Curves is not "zoned"

Need to decide in which area you want to be, and return a slip nominating 1st 2nd and 3rd choices before Dec 15th
They say I "benefited from a 35m square pitch this year", I'm guessing that is what they are averaging it as - although as I sold my camping ticket this year, I wonder if the person I sold it too had an extra large area?!  ;)

Any requests made after 15th Dec have no choice - whatever you get given.

Paddy, if I get a letter (which I hope I will), I will send you a copy.  If not, I will try phoning them. Not many days' grace, are there?

Looks like we have to go for the place where the artic was this year (where we tried to be in '05), the non-allocated zone near the Golden Triangle. The faxmachine will show it's importance again as soon as the letter comes in. The guys who volunteered for the Sunday at the gate will be crucial, if we get that allocation that is :-\

Sorry - the "unallocated area" isn't an option - it's just not mentioned

You only have the choice of ABCDE
 :o

Thanks for that Termie, have you got a fax there? I can PM you my number if needed...

Btw thanks for posting mwbennett, have to go to footie with my son now.
I don't even know for sure if we will be allocated to MB yet :'(

Speak later...

What is the bet that they move the grassy areas over to the fence if we opt for the usual spot!

Is there any mention on Pitch sizes? I certainly hope we do not need all 10 of the allocation!! Here's hoping!

I will scan it into an e-mail Paddy, assuming I am successful.  Bad news for big parties, better for those who have to arrive late and so often find there's no room, I guess - but they should jolly well get here earlier!

Last year the ACO stated 35 square metres per camping pass on its website, same of all campsites except Houx which has marked pitches, but I didn't see that this was really enforced. Anyway, that seems to be the rule and I guess they calculate the amount of passes they sell for each site according to that ratio
Explains why late comers sometimes get turned away even if the have a pass for a specific campsite :(

According to ACO today the pitches won't be marked out for another year or two.  For now it's an area allocation only it would appear.  At least I think that's the gist of it.  Unfortunately my French and her English weren't 100% in synch!

F''k me!!I dont think i'll bother in 2007

PM

WHAT!!!!    Can someone explain what this is about?  Zoning and MB?   

 Does the fact that I don't appear to have got anything give me some indication about the fate of my application which I sent in May  ::)

piggie
I think the letters have only started arriving today.Im sure postie will have one for you this week
PM

We havent had anything about my allocation. Its usually arriving in January so.....

Its getting a bit opf nonsence with this zoning bit. Iff the frogs just grew some balls and said to some people - YOU HAVE TOO MUCH SPACE FOR THE TICKETS YOU HAVE.

The letters seem to be sent out in alphabetical order, with we residents being done last of all.  Hence Mr Bennett got his first.  Watch this space, I guess.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and pray for MB tickets, from what I understand from previous posts is that some of the areas in MB will be of limits for camping, severely limiting space on the site. We ordered in March last year, Paddy will probably check his mail with care the coming days!!

I got my letter - can't work put whether the Golden Triangle is in B or C though. I am thinking it's B where the shaded block is but would like a 2nd opinion.

At least my MB tickets seems secure for another year though...  :)

They were trying last year, but don't seem to have the balls.

I can't work out how zoning will help.  If the place gets packed, they'll have to count how many passes to a zone etc  Its don't cure nowt.

Damn.  :-\

Let's just hope we get our allocation, will be kinda hard to collect tickets through other channels, and have them all for the same zone.

I usually have 9 spare...  ;) but preference goes to my other "regulars" from this forum...

My thoughts are we will eventually get a "Houx" type of campsite on MB, and they will use the coming two years for us 'visitors' and them 'organisers' to get used to it. Of course for them to eventually get more places sold. Shame, it means that money once again takes over.

It will take a lot of organising and teeth grinding to keep things the same for the years to come :-\

Its all our fault.  We've got 10 tickets and only 8 camping passes.

We're going for Zone "C", as it seems to be where we usually go.  I'm upset, as I've alway had pass no MB00012

The map which I haven't seen yet, has lots of squares and passageways on it.  However, 28 pitches are marked on the circle of grass near the entrance.  That may seem tight, but on research is 60 sq metres a pitch.

Oh f**k*ng bolloxy bollox.  What a pain in the bloody arse all this is, it really is enough to make you want to stay home >:( >:(

On the basis I don't ever seem to get what I ask for from the ACO, I don't fancy the idea of trying to track down three passes in the same zone to make sure we've got enough room to pitch the bloody tents.

I really really don't f**k*ng get the ACO, surely this just puts the black market value of tickets up. 

I appreciate that this indicates a vast lack of understanding about the ACO but won't they just for once think about the bloody fans.    >:(

Cheers that saved me typing it!

As a LM veteran of 16 yrs,I certainly feel like saying"b@ll@cks"and going to Spa or Nurburgring instead
PM

Sounds like that for 2008 we should have another go with our old idea of doing a CA mass booking with the ACO to get some campsite which we can "zone" according to our own needs, the "tropicoma zone", the "heineken zone",... ;D ;D ;D

Hey Werner that sounds like a really good idea why not try a vote?

I know a great campsite at Spa ! Piglet and I go each year you meet some nice people there

keith

you cany beat the hotels in Spa for value!
PM

I guess we will have to start looking for a farmer with a big field an a lot of patience to put up with us. But I guess if we pay him enough, he won't mind. DFH will bring the genny ;D and the beer of course.

I'm struggling to see the disadvantage to this "zoning". The ACO ask us in advance where we'd like to camp. We tell them. We may or may not be allocated the zone we requested. What's the problem people?

If you're on the "magic list" and get your allocation direct from the ACO every year it's probably not too bad.

For those of us who put our requests in during May and still get allocated Bleu Nord it's a bit trickier.   I usually pick up MB tickets on here and on ebay. It's going to be pretty tough if I've got to get three tickets in the same zone.

Also I guess for the groups if different people get allocated their tickets in different zones how will that work out?   Perhaps we'll have a different DfH encampment in each zone of the site to go and visit.....

Does anyone know why some of the campsite doesn't appear to be available - hopsitality areas perchance? 

To be honest, I'm getting rather tired of trying to get tickets for MB. This is my third December in a row of teeth grinding, nail biting and checking the mailbox at home three times a day to see what our allocation will be. I always get my letter (read: invoice) ridiculously late for some stupid reason, and I'm starting to get the feeling we'll be reallocated to Bleu Nord again -which is not nice, because then the ACO will keep us on a line again saying we're on the waiting list for MB, and than that whole stupid thing starts again trying to sell the tickets for FV again with all its administrational consequences >:(

If it gets worse with the allocations then we might as well go back where we started in '04: Beauséjour. Over there we can go all the way to the back, and make as much noise and use as much space as we want - without being reallocated to a place we don't want to be or some stupid ACO-shirt'n'tie asking questions.
We had fun there in '04, can't see why we couldn't do it again...

Nothing yet, Paddy, but we (French residents) are always last.

I'm very curious how someone gets on that list.

Done mine in March, that's why I'd be really p*ssed off if they'd shove us over the road again...


Thanks Termie, nothing at my place either. Was at home at noon to pick up lil Paddy and texted tha missus later. Empty box is all she found...
And that's what I mean, it always takes too long to receive the letter >:(

Paddy

Come back to BSJ you know it makes sense, we were there in 2005 and had a blast. back there this year  ;D

I'm not alone in my group, let's wait and see what the others say.

It's all still early days though, as long as I haven't got a letter there's still hope for MB :-\

That sounds fun, but a touch impractical.  Perhaps there are 6 zones, A, B, C, D, E & DfH.

Don't give up hope Paddy

lol, that would be great :D

but I can understand Paddy, he already takes up so much work for DFH and this is not motivating at all...

Paddy, I would advise for us to decide on dec. 15 to go to BSJ if we haven't heard anything on MB....

sorry, actually I didn't have the energy for the rolling eyes smilie....

I'm with Paddy, I'm fed up with the aggro of it all.  I'm seriously considering not going as I can't be bothered with another year of trying to track down tickets and this time having to find ones for the right zone. 

I don't want to go to BSJ, I'm sure it's a nice site but it's too far out.  For us with KK going back and forwards to the media room MB is a good location.  I don't like idea of being on Bleu - it's too "outside the fence" and I'm concerned about the absolute lack of security on it.

We'd consider Spay but then you've got to get back and forwards to the circuit and there is nowhere to go to chill and relax without going back out to the campsite. 

I don't understand why it all has to be so difficult.  There are ebay sellers who flog off 10 tickets at a time at a huge mark up, yet the ACO don't seem to be bothered about that....

Actually, I would suggest that this is exactly what the ACO are doing.

Over the years, myself and several of my friends have had the problem of arriving on a Thursday with legitimally purchased tickets, only to be told at the camp entrance the site is full. We have then had to endure arguements untill finally being allowed in, whereby of course it is damn near impossible to find space to camp together, whilst those that arrive earlier in the week have huge areas roped off just for their paddling pools and stuff.

It is why I now only use Houx, and several of my friends no longer attend the race.

I appreciate that not everyone takes up too much space, and indeed, they buy enough tickets to cover what they want, but this does not apply to all. What can be fairer than having a premarked and numbered space which you know will be waiting for you even if you can only arrive Friday afternoon?

I think this should have been implemented several years ago, and personally I am really looking forward to the possibility of returning to MB with a group again.

Invisible one, I am with you here.  We live nearby and knowing from this site about the difficulties of getting a pitch, we dumped Mr Termite's car and pitched the tent on MB on the Monday and just left it there (and were obliged to pay for an extra two nights we had no intention of using).  By the end of the week there was no way new arrivals would have been able to do anything other than squash into the tiny spaces which were left.  It didn't seem fair to us.

Since I haven't bothered my arse with tickets yet (writing a thesis is a little time consuming), I am imagining BSJ will be the home for the third year on the bounce for Team Cannonball.

Paddy does have a point, if you arrive anytime before Friday on BSJ you can have as much space as you like, the toilet facilities are excellent and the queues are definately shorter than Houx Annexe and Karting Nord. The bus service was massively improved this year as well. Ok it may cost you an extra pair of shoes with all the walking you are doing but hey it will keep you fit and you won't have too put up with all this ACO bull. The question has to be asked though why they felt the need to introduce this policy in the first place, is it the age old adage of someone taking up more than there allocated space or is it a sinister ploy to exploit the great unwashed of MB. When we were in KN a bus (not a minibus a bus) full of about 30 blokes rocked up with one camping pass for the vehicle and promptly created an encampment that would have needed the best part of 15 passes. I fear this irresponsible behaviour is having a knock on effect, probably due to people buying MB tickets in good faith from the ACO rocking up on the Friday, finding no room and then getting punted to BSJ  or the spill over area at the Porsche curves.

Anyway we are quite happy to be on BSJ as after Bonfiregate on KN 3 years ago, overcrowding  and some grumpy feckers left a very sour note indeed.

Last year we saved space for other late arrivals and the space was not large for the number of people that were arriving. A 15m x 15m space housed the Brethren and the SPS Crew.

Groups like DfH they probably have more tickets then space as there is only one communal space in the middle as opposed to 5 or 6, and they tend to box the cars in.

The zoning idea I can't see being policed very well as last year we did not pay the early arrival fee due to not speaking French at the time ;D.

I was glad to see that Sunday arrivals had been turfed off the site last year. It should be open to all at the correct time.

My main concern is groups not getting the plot they are all after leading to arguments when they camp together anyway. I wonder how many passes the group at the end of the MB road had for the 40m articulated lorry!

We plan to camp near or with DfH again and will need 4 passes to justify the space needed. Just imagine how much hassle it is to get 4 Zone X tickets for E**Y.

I have e-mailed the ACO explaining our difficulties and the fact that we are (between us anyway) potentially a very large group many of whom want to be together.  I pointed out that this represents an important part of the event to many of us.  Watch this space - the ACO e-mail system is hit and miss as you know. ::)
If all else fails, I'll nip in and see them.

I think it would be best for the ACO to make a late arrival zone and leave the rest to what it is. They should make sure that people do pay for what they use. And it would be nice if (regular) groups can have pre-located zones.

That's probably better for the ACO too since they can control the groups better because they know they will be coming and will be using a large area.  If there is a location that is assigned to a certain group, ACO can make sure the group gets the area it wants and they can make sure the area is sized according to the tickets they have. Easier to check for them during the weekend too.

There are lots of problems, but I don't see how zoning helps to solve that?   Perhaps someone can explain?

There has been a notional space allocation per ticket for years 7m x 5m - I've only ever seen the ACO checking overall pitch sizes to parking permits once.   I appreciate that this would be hard work but why not enforce this?  They managed to enforce no swimming pools last year so why is this beyond them? 

If they were serious about solving the problems they would either allocate pitches or enforce the space allocation and more importantly remove the farcical ability for anyone to pitch on the site for free as long as they don't bring their car  ::)

Some of the space taken up is difficult to defend but again surely that is up to the organisers to deal with?   and again - Zoning helps this how? 

Late arrivals is a tough one - there is part of me that says the event starts on Wednesday (actually Monday arguably) - it's always going to be difficult to get space later in the week.  That's why we go early in the week.  If we didn't we'd try to get passes for Houx.   Again, I don't see how zoning on its own helps this? Perhaps a late arrivals area is a good idea - I've got mixed thoughts on this though.

As for being better for the fans - that's what we are - there are usually four or five of us - we need enough space for three sleeping tents, a kitchen tent and a gazebo for shade so we have three passes and this give us enough space.   The difficulty is that the system for getting tickets seems to be a lottery - Paddy applied in May last year and was 13th on the waitlist (IIRC) yet they told me that it wasn't possible to apply for tickets until June 6th.  I applied then and was rejected. 

How do the normal fans get tickets?    How do the people on ebay have 10 tickets to sell?  The only difference that zoning makes to this is to reduce the supply of tickets and thus put up the ebay prices of them.

Why not a sensible system for tickets, scrap the "magic list", enforce 2 GA tickets per camping pass , enforce the space allocation properly on arrival and carry out a sensible analysis of the number of "pitches" available and sell the correct number of tickets.

Oh and stop the ability for people to walk in with no bloody camping pass at all  ::)

Why not give out 4 bracelets per car with the ticket. That would stop minibuses with 12 people and 12 tents on one pass! Sorry Robbo :police:

Send out a letter with the tickets stating that bracelets must be collected in person with ID from a central place at Le Mans. That would stop tickets going on Ebay and stop people brining over sized vehicles rammed full of people.

Right.. got our letter today Ref Maison Blanche , so with a cup of coffee or

two I have counted the proposed pitches available ( Sad I know but ) the

results  give or take one or two are as follows

                               Zone A    172 piches
                              
                                ZoneB     327

                                ZoneC      217

                                ZoneD      272
                      
                                ZoneE      184



                        Total Pitches  1172



   Doesnt seem that many to me

Good idea and thinking about it they do this for the Moto GP already.....

So come along then guys and gals, why aren't you all suggesting these great ideas to the ACO?

Suggesting this to the ACO might not be such a bad idea. Hoping that they will do something with the info is another thing. For us, if we do not get any ticket allocation for MB it will probably be Beausejour then, cheaper, cleaner and no hassle. I am getting a bit tired with the ACO, why don't we move the circuit to Great Britain, seeing that most spectators are from overthere anyway.

We've been doing this for years - they say "If lost, please return to Maison Blanche"

Now we can quote a zone and maybe a pitch number too.

And we can't move the circuit to Blighty, it might put the Dutch off, if they had to pay UK duty on all that beer.

20% as a matter of fact.  And anyway, they'd put it on at bl**dy Silverstone, wouldn't they! ;)

Can't be that many people just turning up without cars though, if there (aco) was they would probably have found a space unsuitable for cars and charge for the privilige.And anyone without a car takes up far less space anyway.

The popularity of the event increases and the available space is now probably too limited.

Best not  complain too much or they may just take the english way of dealing with shortage of supply and hike the prices.

I fully support Werners idea.
As someone who can only get off work from Friday to Monday, I'd be buggered if it wasn't for my CA friends saving me a pitch.

Am I correct in saying that a camping pass allows a specific number of tents (something like five, i thought) or is it worked out by the size of pitch.
Either way, mine just covers Me, my two man tent and an 11ft 4 inch x 4ft 4 inch car.

I must admit I have always found it annoying that a single guy on a motorbike and a small tent has to pay the same a twentry guys with a coach and twenty tents.

As for our group we all take two seater sports cars and bikes and therefore have to have 22 camping tickets for just 35 people.

The only fair way is that you pay for the area you use, which suggests pitches, but it needs to be done in such a way that groups can be put together and spread over a number of pitches

What would the effect of zoning be on the commercial vendors of the tickets? I wonder, if you order tickets from justtickets or what have you, do you all get them in the same zone? Or will they just supply them as they get them from the ACO. Or maybe they only sell tickets for the areas which are not in the zones but around them?? My bet is that this thread is going to be a long one!

Then mal, you would have approved of the system in the campsite at Spa (behind the hotel in Francorchamps).  They advertised the site at 8 euros per night.  However, they charged us 8 euros for the car and 16 for the tent as it was a frame one.  Also, it wasn't per night but per day so we were charged 6 x 24 euros for staying from Wednesday (arriving 5pm) and leaving on Monday at 10 am.  Now that's a rip of!

As has been said earlier in this thread, at LM you pay for 35 square meters of pitch, regardless - that is how they work out how many tickets they sell.  It's obvious from the fact that if you arrive late - even with a pre-booked MB ticket - you can find there is no room that some people (of course, nobody from this site) take up more space than they are allocated.  And as ever, it is these selfish b*stards who cause organisers like the ACO to introduce petty and irritating regulations.

Last years pass didn't allow a specific number of tents, it allowed a pitch of 35 sqm, e.g. 7*5 metres of space per pass. In case you need more space, I guess you are expected to buy more campsite passes, e.g. 5 passes for an area of 175 sqm

Thet's why we were allowed to have 420 square meters 'last year' (ffs it's still 2006 guys! Or do we have newyears eve in June?? ;))

So we're back to agreeing that each pass should give you an amount of space, if you need more you should buy more passes?  Which is spookily enough the current situation except that the ACO don't enforce it.  

I'm sorry to come back to it but I still don't see how zoning helps this?  

Despite Termies comments I'm pretty sure the majority of us on here made damn sure that we had enough passes for last year as we were pretty sure that the ACO were going to have a good stab at enforcing the space restriction.   Which they then didn't......

Of course I note that nobody has suggested that perhaps they just sell more passes than there is space for?  

As an aside, a pitch size of 7 x 5 is very small, the average campsite spot in England would be 10 x 10 and the average French spot probably bigger.   This results in the tents being close together and creating a fairly serious fire hazard.  

Piglet, I specifically said it was nobody on here didn't I?  And yes I agree this is a pathetic attempt to solve the apparent problem - although, like you, I still haven't seen this letter so don't know what it says!  At most other events of this sort that I have been to where spaces are not physically marked out, there is somebody inside the campsite/car park lining people up with the allocated spaces and you just get what you're given - no chance to be near your mates unless you arrive together.
At a music festival which I have been attending for nearly 30 years, you just get the width of your car with room for a tent behind - and there are huge marked "roadways" in between so fire engines can get to every tent.  Nobody complains - that's the way it is.

No I would not. What I am saying is that I paid for 22 tickets which should allow me 770 m2 of space which I clearly do not use. The ACO may say they allocate on m2 basis but they will not let a vehicle in woithout a camping pass no matter how much space you have used. Last year we probalby used about 400m2 so if I said I wanted twelve camping passes but tried to get  22 vehciles in they would turn 10 away. Other people buy one or two camping passes, bring a large vehicle and loads of kit and then use much more than their allocation. The only fair way is for the camping pass to give you an allocated space and you get as many as you need for your set up.

Bikers are so often treated badly in this respect - except at the festival mentioned above where they have a special site which is free for them and for back-packers.  But yes, you should pay for one marked out space per ticket and that's that.  I quite agree.

At the classic this year, on the Sunday, we wanted to bring Mr Termite's car up to the tent to take some of our stuff away and the jobsworth on the gate wouldn't even let him in for 10 minutes! (This was fine, btw, after the 24 hours, no probs at all). Humph.

The problem isn't just getting access to burning tents, it's that with such small pitches you don't get any decent separation between units so if one tent catches fire it spreads immediately to adjoining tents.    For permanent sites in the UK (and I think it comes from European legislation) there is I think a requirement of 6 m clearance between "units".

Of course sites like LM and Silverstone for the GPetc aren't permanent sites so in theory aren't governed by the regulations....

That's a whole different discussion though....

Although, Piglet, maybe we should add (if it isn't already there) a fire extinguisher to the list of what we should bring to LM, in the guide!

If fire would break out -and please let that never happen- the fire crew will run over tents anyway, and I'd let them!

We always have one on us!

you have 16 barrells of dont you Paddy!

Attached is hopefully a scan of the plan of MB ,the scribblings are me counting up the pitches

I wouldn't ever camp without an extinguisher and a fire blanket, although arguably the small ones are as much use as a chocolate t-pot. 

A few of years ago on Silverstone GP marshals campsite, I came very very very close to setting fire to a nylon windbreak that was attached to the tent....It taught me to always make sure that there is as much gap as you can manage between plastic structures. 

Edited to add: cheers for the map Ian, there does seem to be a lot of the campsite missing though or am I not looking at it correctly? 

I agree that pitches marked and monitored would be a good idea. NO NUMBERING THOUGH!!! The only problem is size. Houx's 5x5m pitches are way too small for a car, tent and gazeebo, making them massively over priced.

MB stated that the allocated space was 7x5m as we had three passes last year that gave us 7x 15m which I think we were within.

I think the best way is to provide braclets stopping people getting on site without a bracelet would also improve security. Only problem you would get is with visiters.

We'd better bring our own fire truck instead of one extinguisher. Can we fill up de pool with or own water too.

I think the allocation of the piches by size is still the best way to go. I think they should make a more detailed grid map of it up front to calculate size on location by visual references en adding up grids. Shouldn't be too difficult. You just have to make the grid map once and you can use it every year. Just as a reference for the campsite guys to make it a little bit more doable.

And it would be easier for the ACO to make a group ticket buying option. You say how big a pitch you want and they give you a map on which you can indicate the location with a marker. Send it to them, they can easily check the price vs size, send back a confirmation of your spot and price, you pay and before arrival all the group tickets are already market on the fields. Groups happy with having some pressure off for getting their spot. ACO happy because there is no way anyone can argue about their groups spot size and location.

71 pitches for DfH and most of those areas were on a bank or tirewall!

OK, I can't work it out.

Can someone give me some points of reference for the map - where were DfH on it?  We were on the corner of the roadway on the way to the temporary toilets, I can't work out where that is either?

I still reckon they'll be hospitality along the fence line......

This is ridiculous! >:(
According to this map we were at B/10 in '05 and '06. In '06 there was TeamJPC, Rick Cutler, Delboy and us on that same spot. My guess is we had about 30 tickets all together!! (http://forum.drinkingforholland.com/images/smiles/icon_rage.gif)

Really weird allocation this. Very few spots in that area indeed.

My interpretation of the map is south is to the top as you look at the scan and the black shaded area is the toilet block

It looks to me like the allocations are a lot smaller than the 7 by 5 meters suggested here. The site we were in covers 72 pitches, as rick said there is a tirewall have way through. Last year we had more than 30 passes for that area and we did not take to much space. Granted, it looked like a huge space in the middel, but consider that we al slept in 3 big tents and this space was devided between JPC, DFH and Delboys crew. How the hell are they going to fit 72 tents and cars in there????

Cheers Ian, that's starting to make sense.  I think what's confusing me is the lack of pitches shown on some of the areas? 

As Paddy says some of the areas absorbed way more people and passes last year? 

Very strange.....

Something like this maybe?

(http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/travel_events/Europe_2003_Photos/Porsche/Nice_parking_lot.jpg)

Sorry Rick (and knetter and Sebastian), have to correct that. I have taken the part of the map and highlighted our area with a blue circle. Underneath it is the photo from Mogie to visualize this. The ACO have allocated 10 places for the 30+ we had in '06 >:(
The pitches on the right from those 10 are the Beermountain, further right is the Golden Triangle and bogs.

So you only need 10 tickets then!  Must say Paddy, that's the way I read it too.

And that's precisely what I've ordered ;)

They probably just left some space open for the crowd on friday night.  :)

I think you slightly out, Paddy.  The pitches you highlight are to the right of the banking, unless the ACO have zapped that part of the banking up to the trees.

Also, the space we (DfH, JPC, myself and Rick) took went down as far as the roadway, seen quite clearly in the photo. I think we were more in this area:

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/delboy9/MBPitches1.jpg)

Del

Just sussed it THERE IS A ROAD MISSING!!!!!

The one we were camped along is not there. 2-7-13-15-22 are all on the other side of the Road from DfH. 22 was Robbo and The Brethren.

No one would have fit behind us as there was only the tirewall and 2 foot of sand. The space further round the bend consisted of MB raceway and only 3 meter deep pitches for about 30 meters before tarmac.

Your right Rick, The FB's were just the other side of the road opposit the entrance to DFH site and your own.

Do we assume they have removed the road, or that they have just missed it off? - the latter seems the safe bet.

I was just about to say that I didnt think the "roads" were right - couldnt quite put my finger on what was wrong tho!

 (As a non-resident I am less familiar than some of you - as I noticed when on exiting MB - no doubt after some CA hospitality - I turned left on my pushbike and ran straight into an unlit tyre wall that hadnt been there the previous year!! -  :-[  )

F

Adjusted ;)

That looks about right! So if we can get 30 spots in that area again, collectively, the party can go ahaed as planned ;D

Another thing... if the allocation is 5 x 7 metres... how come the pitches appear to be square?   Surely making them rectangular will throw out the numbering...... or am I just being a bit spacially challenged?

F

35 square meters is what it says, I think.

Going by this I think SPS would end up with more space than last year, we were about where the 59 is on Paddys plan, we had 8 or 10 passes, but did not use the equivilant of that many little squares. The road behind us is new or was simply used last year, it looks as if its just going to cause hassle and confussion.

That's more like it - well done Rick for spotting that and Paddy's revision.

What still strikes me is that there are huge unallocated spaces all over the map, and that much space has been left for 'roadways'.

Assuming the squares are 35 sq metres, each square is approx 6 x 6m.  The 'roadways' left are about the same size, so there are 6 metre highways all over the place, which isn't true in practice.  Also, as Ian has stated, 1172 isn't very many.

I'm actually getting a bit concerned because I'm usually one of the first to get the allocation letter (invoice) - being an 'A'.  But if Smokie ('M') has got his, where is mine   :'( :'( :'(.

Del

Del
       I think it goes on the client number, ours is  6 hundred and something if that helps

The blank spaces are gravel or trees I assume. Mind you a tent pitch on Houx three years ago was the top of a sespit and concrete all over.

My pitch on Houx a few years ago came with its own tree - that made pitching interesting!

There are quite a few missing areas on the pitch layout map - the pitches around the wooded area (with the armco) are missing, and so are the ones inside the wood.

The area where Smokie and co were last year doesn't seem to be included either. 

I wonder what that means?  The areas aren't available for camping or that they are just not shown on the map? 

 

I think they are using a rough allocation because some space will be lost in practice and there will allways be people using a little to much. You can't control that entirely.

And maybe they want to keep some space open to use for tickets sold at the gate or people who couldn't fit in somewhere else. Wouldn't make a lot of sence to use MB for that but they are French.

It would prevent problems though if they would just pre sell it spacious and then sell tickets at the gate from friday for the space that's left. If you buy a ticket for MB and they reject you they are probably obligated to arrange equal accomodation or pay some sort of refund.

well it looks more likely that the WANCs wont be bothering this year.I have an allocation of four MBs and 4 Lagache stand tickets,so if I do get offered these I will most likely offer them out to those of you without tickets.By the time the invoice arrives we will have made the final decision
cheers

PM

Me me me me me please....... ;D

Otherwise I might just stay home and camp in the garden, drink beer and watch motors TV  :(

If it were me and I was the ACO I'd use the area by the track for hospitality suits, sod the putters they don’t matter. Put up a big fence keep the piss heads in the camp site out and charge F*ch knows what for hospitality. The ACO will do what they want, and if the real race fans suffer so what we made money….. there is no point is looking for logic. The ACO are the ACO and as “Piglet” said what are they doing… what they have done makes NO SENCE. It doesn’t provide  assured space, or safety. It’s a waste of time and effort but to the ACO it makes some sort of sense.  Ok so we have all these “zones” but with out “zone” Police what’s the point and if you turn-up and your “zone” is full what…….

Heared very nice things about them too.  :-X

Yeah and then we would end up with even more of those footbally feckers... have you thought of that, do you really want mad friday every night and day??

>Martini...

No, thank you.

The Zoning map for Bleu Nord must be simple enough though , and even more pointless!

Email from ACO today! My question was can I camp in the area's that are not "zoned" or in a different area if my "zone" is full when I arrive...

Dear Sir,

You will only be able to camp in the zone written on your ticket.

We will sell the exact number of place per zone, so normally it can't be
full by the time you arrive.

Kind Regards,

Service Réservation / Booking Office
Circuit des 24 Heures
72019 Le Mans Cedex 2
FRANCE
Tel: (0033)(0)892 697 224 (0,34€/min)
Fax: (0033) (0)2 43 84 47 13
www.lemans.org/ticket

I also got a reply from the ACO this morning as I have not yet received a letter.  These are apparently being sent out first to "regulars" and then in order of receipt of the booking request.  I have asked them how one goes about becoming a regular!

Just a guess: May be "regulars" are people with a customer number from previous bookings. I have the same customer numbers for some years already and I always put it on the booking form when ordering next year's tickets.

I think you'll find this is what I refer to as the "magic list" there is clearly a status whereby you get whatever you want regardless of when you book (or even if you book)

It appears to be those who have booked tickets for a good number of years (I'd guess 10 years plus) seem to get special status which probably explains why the likes of Paddy apply for tickets in May and still get rejected! 

BTW I'm not knocking those that are on it it, I'd be very pleased if I was on it but sadly I'm clearly not!   I'm just fairly convinced that quite a lot of these tickets are the ones finding their way onto ebay....

Edited to say: present company excepted of course, I know there are those on here who are on the "magic list" and do a nice job of passing their tickets along at FV.... ;D

same here, but...:


 :'(

I assume you did send it again Paddy.  They don't seem to be having problems this morning.

I wonder where that leaves groups like ours who book through Just Tickets and have done for nearly 20 years?

You will probably end-up with 20 tickets in all 5 zones :-\

Same with me, Werner - I've had the same customer number for at least as far back as I have kept records (back to 2000).  I didn't 'ask' to get on the 'magic list', they just gave me this number after a few years of ordering.

But I still havn't received my allocation letter!!!

Del

Neither have I :-\

I got straight onto the magic list after the first time I ordered tickets direct with the ACO ('99 I think), and I don't know why. I use the same booking number each year, and each year I mail them around race time "can you confirm I will get the same tickets next year" and each time "yes of course you will". It's weird...

I have always got 10 MB tickets but only used anything close to that in the first few years. I'm loath to alter the number in case it pushes me off the list - but my cash flow isn't good and I'm aware that I'm "hogging" spaces which I'm not going to use (it's unlikely that I would ever need more than 3 or 4 in future). So as long as I can help others here out I am not inclined to change the request, to avoid jeopardising my own requirement. (Of course I could try to increase my magic allocation to ensure that more of you get what you want...)

Well, the booking number is the key then.  I'll use it next year.  Thanks for the tip.  Must put this in the guide....

I altered my 'standard' request for camping tickets 4 years ago with no apparent disagreeable effect.  I also modify my request for grandstand/general entry tickets almost every year to reflect the size of my party which varies between 8 and 12.

Del

Looking at the allocation letter for '06, ie the one I got a year ago, the number is called 'Destinataire No.', whereas it was called 'Beneficiaire No' in previous years.   Presumably both can be translated to 'Customer Number'.

Del

More of a "lurker" than a poster, this thread has forced me out of hibernaion. (Last post was to flog a spare MB ticket to Piglet last year!) Even If I get my MB alocation this year, I think the ACO will have finally pushed my group over the edge. We have been camping on MB since 1990, from back in the good old days when you could just turn up on the gate. With the increasing difficulty in getting camping passes (4-ish groups from different parts of the country/Europe turning up on different days) this zoning business may well be the final straw.  I just can't get my head around the logistics of it, let alone how the ACO is going to enforce it? Suddenly it doesn't seem like so much fun......

Ihave had an answer!  To become an "habitué" (regular) you need to have been booking for 15 years!  That is the key to the magic list.

Everyone has a customer number (or whatever you want to call it), I quote mine every year.

It's whether it's the "right" number I think that matters!

Edited to say: Hello Wookie - thanks for last years ticket, it was very much appreciated  ;D

Hmmm... I'm a "regular", but only since '99 when I bought my own tickets instead of going with a group.
Customer number is in the hi 9000's - so not that low a number!

It really did work in our favour about 5 years ago - I saw people here getting tickets - and I had not even had an invoice!
I called and asked what had happened - they said they must have lost the booking.  :o But they immediately sorted me out with the ACO grandstand seats I had always ordered, and the MB ticket as well!

I have never quoted mine but I see that in spite of that, it's always the same year on year.  So they do link things up then.

I've read most of this thread and was intrigued to find a reason for the above. My guess is that this prime patch of Maison Blanche has been withdrawn from the campsite in order to service the ever increasing demand for corporate hospitality.

I think it may have more to do with the entance to the new expanded pit and paddocks but there's really nothing for it - I will go and look when I next am in town.

Or you could do it this weekend Tubs!

Take your camera with you please, Deb.  At least, confirm Rick/Paddy's interpretation of the zoning plan.

Del

Can somebody who has received a letter confirm what's precisely in there?
I just got off the phone from the ticket office, and they told me they're "just about to start allocating, and we should hear from them in about one- to two months time".

Has anybody got a definite confirmation about their location yet? In that case the woman is just telling fairytails....

voila.. copy of letter and also email received

Dear Madam, Dear Sir,

We acknowledge receipt of your request for reservations for the 2007 “24 Heures du Mans”.

As we are not in a position to process the bookings at the moment, we are therefore unable to confirm your reservation which will be registered by arrival date at the end of the year. The reception of an invoice within a few months will validate your booking.

In order to satisfy a maximum number of members, the allotment of seats in the ACO Grandstand for 2007 and the following years will be as follows:
- 2 seats per card for the « Etoile », « Sécuriclub » and « Club 24 » formulae;
- 1 seat per card for all other formulae;
- For the General Enclosures, there is no change in the advantages concerning the number of tickets.

We hope this will be helpful.

Yours faithfully,

The Booking Office

and the email

Everything is OK. Your collegues have just received a letter to inform we well received their booking. It's not the allocation letter as we haven't started to record the booking. We sent you the letter but it probably not arrived (could you please check the address in case it's not the good one). You should receive your allocation letter in January or February.

So we will have to wait longer >:( >:( >:(

Thanks for that, Fagey!

I'm completely confused now.
Is it so that the people from the 'magic list' have already received their allocation (and have a choice for ABCDE), and the rest have to wait untill Jan/Feb?


Why the difference in letters between smokie and Fagey? ???

god knows!! ??? I'm totally fuddled ::) but will take what I am allocated then see what I can do.. half full glass..not half empty ;D

Just spoke to smokie by phone. He definitenitely has been awarded MB tickets, and has already faxed his choice of MB-area back.
So he must be on the "magic list" for definite, lucky man :)
 
The rest of us can wait untill Febuary - no choice of area, obviousely :-\

Or a choice on Bleu Nord if we're lucky.... ::)

Don't get downhearted Paddy, my e-mail definately says that allocations will begin NEXT WEEK, in order of the date they were requested (habitues - regulars - this week).  This would make the timescale precisely on a par with last year.  I requested my tickets on Wednesday practice morning and my allocation letter was posted to me on 21st December.
The LETTER which Fagey quotes, is the one that was sent out in August to me.

Oi - nowt wong wi' bleu nord!!!  I spent a lovely few days there last year  ;D

F

But you fell off your bike getting back there  ;D

How secure did it feel on there?  I'm concerned about it being  "outside the fence"? 

Nice one, I ordered in March :-\

Yeah, untill DfH lands on Bleu Nord (http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/coverears.gif)

;D

Its true I did fall off my bike heading home, but technically I was still inside the MB perimeter fence at the time!

As for security, never had any problems on any of the "outside" campsites so far.  *touch wood*

F

Pah - we aint scared of you lot - we have the jets and choppers flying overhead all hours!  8)

Just found this posting on the Porsche Club GB Forum, it's a story about how they deal with the campsite issue at Le Mans, see http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=228222

Is that an idea for the future? Could CA approach the ACO in a similar way?
Any ideas?

I agree.. it is worth a shot at least.. and we have the names to go for at the ACO ;D

Interestingly the post contains the following

Discussions turned inevitably to our presence this year, and I was delighted to be told the ACO had absolutely nothing to discuss on the negative, other than to state (going forward) that due to H&S issues our perimeter will be moved to allow a 50m exclusion zone (from the edge of track) to avoid any “flying debris”.  

Could this 50m exclusion zone count for the unavilability of certain areas in MB?

If a wheel comes off in a huge accident and flies over the high fences, the safest place to be is probably Bleu Nord. Anything can happen at Maison Blanche :-\

Or you could be hit by a flying microwave oven just about anywhere. ;D

smokie
If you tell me what Zones you have chosen,then i will do the same.
It does look more likely though that i wont be using them in 2007 but i dont want to fall off the magic list.(I will have 4 MB tickets up for grabs)

PM

DFH might pick you up on that matter, after the allocations of the not so magic ones comes in :P

>>>polite cough<<< if you read the thread fire boy you'll see I asked first..... ;D

BTW - I keep meaning to say there is something quite disturbing about the way you keep your head in the flames until they've died down.....alcohol clearly does override instinctive behaviour  ;D ;D

he likes to cut down on hairdresser costs ;)

I read the different zoning is probably because they want the campsite 50 meters away from the track because of debris and wheels flying over the fence.

In what direction are we talking about?  ;D

you have a PM piglet
PM

Powermite - you have mail back  ;D

Not exactly sure but Im sure B was first choice (in Lille right now, will check when I return)

Never hurts to try does it??

And what do you mean, I was sober at that moment and it was very cold outside ;D

I still recall you saying the day after 'good I was drunk, otherwise I wouldn't have done it' ;D

Duhhhh

It really is an impressive fire!! 

I wonder if the ACO have seen it, hence the need for fire lanes  ;D ;D :laugh:

Trust me, the AVI file Rick Cutler has, is more impressive, better quality picture and sound. This however was not my best effort ;)

We have something bigger planned for MB next year ;D

If the allocations go to plan! ;)

I will post a link to the AVI file here later. I have uploaded it to my website but have not got the link at work.

No, I mean when we do not get our allocation. ;D

 ;D

Andy has an even better flame movie on his cam from earlier on the evening. But I haven't seen anything from Andy yet.

Right here is the AVI:

www.totalsportscar.com/images/Pictures/DFH/Knetter.AVI

I think that has stayed in Vegas ::)

Vegas rules didn't apply to that. The only thing it did apply to already vanished when we were still in Vegas.

Yeah andy, where's tha movie???

Back on topic a little.....

Read through the first 5 pages and am now getting tired......

Does the zoning only apply to MB?

Has Karting Nord suffered the saem fate? (not received any letter)

As far as I know it only applies to Maison Blanche. Only the 'regulars' on the magic list have got a letter from the ACO. One of them is smokie, maybe you could ask him if the zoning applies to Karting Nord too.
I think myself it's pretty impossible to zone out Karting Nord as long as Kristensen will drive at Le Mans :-\

Bloody hell Fagey that's one scary avatar  ;D

I know ;D

Only Maison Blanche & Blue will be zoned and have marked pitches in 2007.
They will have numbered pitches in 2008.

Karting Nord is unaffected in 2007. However the ACO plans to have all campsites with marked pitches at future races.

except for the two wheeled variety ;)

Hi, just a question: Is this confirmed? If so, I'll put it in the campsite chapter of next year's le Mans Guidebook

Cheers

Werner

I wonder what the future holds for dear old Houx Annexe.

With the proposed sports stadium, tram terminus and car park, I suspect HA has only a few years left also.

It will probably be in the car park like Expo!

It does make me wonder whether there will be anywhere to camp in a few years time! SHOCK HORROR!!!

Don't panic, Rick. They make enough profits on the campsites. They won't let it go...

If they make that much money why do they always manage to annoy me with the way they handle it every year!

Because they can  ;D

and it makes 'em happy  :-\

And they are French >:(

Yeah, the Polish aren't there, yet :-\

nope.. they are all over here!! :o

Someone has to do the work

nope.. not us.. thats Guernsey ;D

(http://forum.drinkingforholland.com/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) @ Bob ;D

This is how it's done here (http://static.flickr.com/136/322950127_591ecf99a8.jpg)

Exactly.......they are only doing the work others don't want.

They then spend their spare cash supporting our high street obsession and pubs.

I suppose that's an interesting take on the old 'how many rozzers does it take to change a light bulb'......obviously too many "CALL IN THE ARMY WE NEED BACK UP !!!!"

 Rusty :police:

Maybe they can fix the lights on MB then. So Paddy can practice his pole dancing skills again.

That does not paint a very pretty picture. ::)

Ohh - I dont know....  8)

By the way I have been "ZONING" in Maison Blanche before.   ;D

You're right.

I am sure to a young lady "Paddy the imfamous Dutch Pole Dancer"could be quite appealing. ;)

Now you have got me thinking about tucking a 5 euro note into his g-string ...!   :-\

5 euros ?

Are you kidding?

We are talking "Paddy". The imfamous Dutch pole dancing erector specialist !

Dont you know pole dancing erectionist's work for tips alone? ;D

In fact you were "zoned out" on the terroir first time I made your acquaintance ....

A sick mind is a joy for life ;D

I sincerely hope so!!  ;D

don't think I should comment on this ::)




;D

Amazing Randy started it!!!  :angel:

I am a little disturbed by how enthusiastic he was tho, what exactly went on in those big DfH tents?

F

That stays in Vegas ;D

What happened at LeMans stayed in Amsterdam !

That explains the mess in Amsterdam.

(http://forum.drinkingforholland.com/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif)

Anyone got zone maps for Bleu?

I fear we might end up across three zones..... >:(

Buck

LOL - I've just replied to your PH thread asking you to wander over here to break the news re Bleu!  Could you post on the "Le Mans Guide" thread which should be above? 

I was going to reply to say that I already had, but thought you'd figure that out for yourself soon enough!

Buck

My mate sent an email to ACO asking about zoning in Bleu, but just got a reply saying there was no map of zones, but to pop into the office when we arrive!

There'll be a hell of a queue if they want everyone to do that!!!!! :o

Buck

Probably just zone A ;D

You've got to love the ACO haven't you  ;D ::)

It's the French way, what do you expect, it to be easy.  :D

I queried the zoning on Bleu Nord and this is the response just received from ACO:

"Dear Sir,

The Bleu Nord has different zones, and D is not too far from the track.

Best regards"

Thats cleared that up then!!!   :-\

F

Ah, they extended Bleu Nord then, now you'll get to put your tent up in the run off zone at the Ford Chicane! ;D

Oh thats good, will probably have the spyker and RfH crew round for coffee at some time in the weekend then - best order extra croissants for Sunday morning.

 :P

Or you could work your magic on the Saleen and maybe we could have Soyheil Ayari for breakfast.  Now there's a thought... :P

As long as you remember to take your purse, Fran   ;D ;D ;D

Del

Do we queue here?   ;D

Well I certainly hope so, its a long drive back otherwise.....

Tickets arrived today - we are stuck in Zone D which I think is way away from the track - bit of a dissappointment really.