Club Arnage

Formula One is bracing itself for an announcement by the Honda Racing team on Friday morning that could pave the way for one of grand prix racing's biggest names to exit the sport.

Amid the worldwide financial downturn and the impact that has had on Honda's car sales, it is understood that the Brackley-based team's future is now in serious doubt.

Insiders have told autosport.com that the team's senior staff were called for a meeting at the factory on Thursday afternoon and informed that Honda in Japan were no longer willing to bankroll the outfit.

It is suggested that the team will be put up for sale - and if no buyer is found by March then the manufacturer will simply pull the plug and withdraw from the sport.

Amid the current financial climate, it is unclear where Honda Racing would hope to find a buyer willing to support a Formula One team - with budgets already in excess of £100 million per year.

There are suggestions, however, that Honda may be willing to offload the team free of charge to anyone willing to support it - and they could even continue to supply engines for a period of time until another technical partner is found.

However, sources have suggested that team principal Ross Brawn is already eyeing a tie-up with Ferrari for power-units should a buyer be found - with the Italian manufacturer having spare capacity now after ending their deal with Force India.

It is understood that Brawn and F1 CEO Nick Fry are scheduled to fly to meetings in Tokyo on Monday to discuss the future of the team with Japanese bosses - and especially define what happens if no buyer is found.

Honda Racing remained silent about the speculation on Thursday evening, with neither press officers nor senior team personnel available for comment. It is understood the staff informed of the decision were told not to discuss the matter prior to an official announcement being made.

It is expected Honda will issue a press release early on Friday morning revealing their plans. It comes after a challenging year for the team, which had begun a rebuilding process under the leadership of Brawn.

Any pullout by Honda Racing will send shockwaves through F1, and cast question marks over the future of other manufacturers' longterm participation. It would also come several months after FIA president Max Mosley warned that the sport was unsustainable at the moment because of the high costs needed to compete.

It would also mean the grid being reduced to just 18 cars, and would leave drivers Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello without seats.

Any news, whether this decision will also affect their Acura LMP1 project in the ALMS?

Withdrawal confirmed here on Reuters. No mention of Acura LMP1. http://uk.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUKTRE4B37AS20081205?sp=true

Out of interest, what was Honda's budget for F1 and Acura's budget for ALMS ?

Heard on the radio yesterday, sales of Merc and Bmw in USA is already down 40%. Cars are just sitting in the docks waiting for shipment to anywhere, but no dealers want them.

So who's next and in which motorsport?

Its hard to believe that any racing program will be unaffected by the current slump.

I hope they do find a buyer, I have couple of mates who work there (with the other 800) its not going to a great Christmas for them. Also if does go, there are going to be a lot of business local to me that will suffer as well.

It is not a good time to involved in motorsport

Bobblehat

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36687

This is Max's idea to save F1, given that he is part of the group that has brought F1 to this point maybe he should follow Honda out the door.

So std engines + gearboxs? not the way to inspire car makers to contine in F1 I would have thought, maybe they will all pull out and sell the teams back to the original owners who will stuff a cossi into thier own chassis.

hang on.......

It's alright though.  Bernie said so ...

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36691

Dx

Heard on the news that the budget for F1 was 500 million, not sure if it was $ or £ though. Either way it's quite a lot to finish nowhere.

If I might give my considered opinion on what is a very serious matter; f**k Formula 1, f**k Bernie, f**k Max, f**k the FIA, f**k Honda, f**k all the other teams. f**k the sponsors, f**k the curcuits, f**k James Allen, f**k the TV rights and f**k the BBC. f**k them. f**k them all. f**k them all the time.  >:(

Edited to add f**k Ferrari. Especially f**k Ferrari.

Oh come on Andy, stop sitting on the fence, tell us what you really think of all this.

f**k Bob U too!

Also on the news, was Barak bin Obama spent 500million to get into the white house for 4 years.  For that you only get into F1 for a year.

Word on the street over here is that Honda has been looking into joining the NASCAR ranks, which would make sense given that the US is their largest market and there's no F1 race in North America.  Also more bang for the buck considering cost vs number of races.
However NASCAR has also been feeling the economic crunch with several high profile teams struggling to find sponsorship for 2009.
Fax

-Mail online

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article


BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7768596.stm


Seems like a bit of confusion out there, only time will tell.

Ecclestone knows how to win people over...

"Bernie Ecclestone: Technicians Should Be at Home Playing On Playstations" - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/89405-bernie-ecclestone-technicians-should-be-at-home-playing-on-playstations

I was finally starting to look forward to an F1 season - last year was good, but anyone with a degree of patriotism would have enjoyed the age old britsh/brazilian battle, and enjoyed seeing Britain finally win it as well!!  The cars for next season sound interesting - slick tyres, wings that allow overtaking etc etc....

But I can't help thinking that now is the time.  The time for the big boys to stage a coup and get Ecclestone and Mosely out of the sport.  Ecclestone to his credit, is a shrewd and influencial individual, and some of the success F1 has enjoyed, is down to him - but it strikes me that he's got to the point where he's got bored, and decided to shuffle his cards.....at which point honda have simply said (in the words of our illustrious  - sort of - chief) "F*** bernie, F*** F1"....

How many teams leaving would it take?  If Toyota , BMW  and Renault pull out (not inconcievable given the economic situation) there's hardly anyone left - Ferrari/Force India, Red Bull/Torro Rosso, Mclaren, Williams - TV Revenues go down, sponsorship goes down - the sport goes back a decade - but is anyone actually trying to convince them to stay?  Is ecclestone using any of his horredous wealth to ensure that F1 doesn't go down the pan?  Is he heck....  Everyone knows in business you make hay whilst the sun is shining, and use the stockpile to fill in the rainy days - so where's the support? 

Myself?  I'll be watching A1GP this year - Ferrari are guaranteed to win that, but at least the racing isn't tainted with the poisoned dwarf type involvement.

My solution?  Ron Dennis has been talking about retirement for a while now - maybe it's time he took Bernies place?  that'll finally put an end to F1 and allow a pheonix to rise from the flames whilst, in my opinion one of the chief contributors to F1's terrible reputation, Ferrari,  would be racing roundy roundy in the states in order to avoid Ron's wrath....... 

The sad fact is that F1 right now is a house of cards waiting to collapse.  With declining cars sales how much longer can Renault and BMW continue to justify the expense of F1 programs?  I've heard Renault was going to temporarily close its Le Mans manufacturing facility to cut cost.  Also how much longer can a energy drink maker continue to support two F1 teams?  Best thing that could happen is for the whole damn thing to implode on itself and a group with a new and fresh approach breathe it back to life.  F1's been a laughing joke for quite a while now, but its quickly slipping from the absurd to the ridiculous.
Fax

The owner of red bull was selling Torro Rosso, he has changed his mind now and wants to retain control and berger has gone.

Red Bull seem to be bucking the trend and this guy has very deep pockets, christ knows were all the money comes from, its not just F1 he sponsors.

 I really cant believe its solely from his drinks is it?

I can,

how much is a can to buy?  and how much to produce?

According to Wiki - they sell 3 billion cans per year!  -  I can hear the cash register ringing now

Apparently the FIA and teams have agreed "cost cutting measures" for 2009, details to be announced on Friday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7774277.stm

...and here are said details...

Engines:
- From 2009, engine life to be doubled. Each driver to use maximum of eight engines per season; each team can use an additional four for testing
- Limited to 18,000 revs per minute.
- Cost to independent teams will be approximately 50% of 2008 prices.
- 2010 engine will continue to be used in 2011 and 2012.
Race weekend:
- From 2010, standardised radio and telemetry systems, a ban on tyre warmers, mechanical purging of tyres and refuelling on race weekends.
- Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow after market research).
Research:
- No wind tunnel exceeding 60% scale and 50 metres per second to be used after 1 January 2009.
- Restrictions on aerodynamic research, combined with a full analysis of factory facilities.
- Factory closures for six weeks per year, to accord with local laws.
Other:
- From 2010, subject to confirmation of practicability, the same transmission will be used by all teams.
- FIA to compose a standard parts list for the chassis.
- FIA and Formula One Teams' Association to study possibility of an entirely new power train (engine and transmission) for 2013, based on energy efficiency.

For the new Rules, I would sugest the following;

a.  Bring back 'real' gearboxes. You know, the ones with the gearchange on the right hand side that nicked your knuckles when changing,

b.  Standardised tyres all the same compound:- Wets, Inters, Slicks. No special compounds, so really single manufacturer supply,

c.  No 'refuelling' during the race,

d.  Points for 'pole' and 'fastest lap'.

e.  Standard pump fuel whether Derv or Unleaded.

After all, F1 is a sprint race. Not a series of 2 or 3 races depending on others as has been the case for god knows.......

WRC has lost two teams. Suzuki yesterday but a bit of a shocker, Subaru has pulled the plug now as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/world_rally/7785299.stm

Clearly this leaves Prodrive without a works rally team, bit hopefully Aston will benefit as rumours contine of a works Gulf sponsored P1 team, maybe annouced at the Autosport show.

I can't see the point, unless I'm missing summat, surely petrol regs mean the Aston would not be competitive with oil burners?

Shame about Subaru too, but their sales figures must be appalling given their recent woeful efforts on the latest Impreza.

Yeah, right. So, what the F1 pub machine would still have us all believe is the premier motor racing spectacle in the whole world will now have lots of cars painted different colours but identical in many respects under the skin. A one-make series in all but badge. Whether you love Ferrari, McLaren or just Formula 1, this can't be good news for you. On the other hand, step forward Sportscar racing! Now is your hour!

Sounds a lot like A1 GP to me ...

Dx

Or Indycar or dare I say it...NASCAR!
These are my sons Walker and Texas Ranger.  And I'd like to give thanks to little eight pound five ounce baby Jesus.
Fax

Let's go back to back street bodgers (very competent ones) cobbling together a chassis and installing a fire pump engine then.....

MG Mark

If someone wants to build a customer engine that anyone can purchase and plug into the back of a F1 car (as in Cosworth DFV in the glory days) more power to them.  Some of the best racing F1 has ever seen was in the Cosworth "kit car" era, when small racing constructors like Williams, Brabham, Tyrrell, McLaren. etc would plug a DFV into the back of a tidy, well designed chassis and regularly beat the likes of Ferrari.
Also the regulation of having to build your own chassis is completely out of touch.  Once again privateers could purchase a McLaren, Lotus or Brabham and go take on the big guns, and win. Privateers who are so integral to the history of the sport, like Rob Walker could never have afforded to build their own cars.  Stirling Moss's two finest wins, at Monaco and the Ring in '61 would never have happened under the current regs.
I'm completely opposed to mandatory spec chassis and engine regaulations however.  As I said, just call it IRL at that point.
Fax

Rob Walker! Met him once! He owned Pippbrook Garage, just down the road from my schoolfriend's house. There was a service road ran down parallel to the main A24. One day Peter and I were hanging out (like yer do when 15!) when a car nosed off the main road and drifted past down the service road to the garage. What a car  - a Ferrari 250 Lusso, with a ROB2 plate! We legged it down the hill and stood watching as the car took fuel, shyly talking to the man who had been Stirling Moss's entrant. I remember the poor guy on the pumps didn't really know which orifice to put the nozzle in! There were stories from other local motor sport enthusiasts of Walker F1 cars being given shakedown tests on the A24 between Dorking and Leatherhead - a very driveable piece of road in those days - but I never saw these myself.

In the Moss era, Alf Francis, a Pole, was the chief mechanic. His daughter was at our school, and, again, I met him once or twice, by which time he was working for the Count Serenissima. They took a car to the 1966 LM test weekend, but Motor Sport said it wasn't very fast. I think there was a link with Colotti gearboxes, one of the products of that era.

A little dicky bird tells me that Honda has been sold.  To Ross Brawn and the bosses of the Honda F1 team.  Brackley F1 should be launched shortly.

So it has been sold to Nick Fry & co like the rumours said  ::)