Club Arnage

ELMS are cancelling the last two rounds on the European calendar Brno (Czech Republic) and Algarve (Portugal), and grafting the ELMS into Petit Le Mans ALMS as compensation.

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/lemans-series/update/combined-final-for-the-elms-and-the-alms-_8216.html (http://www.lemans.org/en/races/lemans-series/update/combined-final-for-the-elms-and-the-alms-_8216.html)

Message to my leg : HEAL IN TIME !

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Message to LOTO: Now would be a good time to draw my numbers ;D
Phil

This is good news for Road Atlanta, especially after being snubbed by the FIA, which is still a ridiculous decision. After having to miss the Petit last year, and Sebring this spring. there's no way in hell I'm missing the Petit again.  Its my favorite race of the year and I'm still holding a grudge against my sister-in-law for causing us to miss it last autumn.  Get that leg healed Kristof!
Fax

The idea of the WEC as an FIA 'World Championship' is that the series visits as many countries and continents as possible. Having two races in the USA was never going to happen. They had to decide between PLM and Sebring, and they chose Sebring.

In what most people consider the glory days of sportscar racing, the era of the World Championship For Makes, there were often multiple races in countries.  England would have 1000K races at both Silverstone, and Brands.  The were three WC races in the US! Daytona, Sebring, and the 6 Hours at the Glen.
I'll re-state what I said before, if they want a World Sportscar Championship, then perhaps they should race in countries that actually give a sh*t about sportscar racing.
I step down off my soapbox...
Fax

I was at a meeting last September with Gerard Neveu, Jean-Claude Plassart and Patrick Peter (and a few others) and this question came up. The answer from WEC supremo Gerard Neveu was what I outlined below. The FIA policy was to have just one round in North America. It was not a deliberate 'snub' to PLM, but a result of the 'one race per country' decision. Remember also that the reason there is a World Championship at all is because of the manufacturers involved (Audi and Peugeot at the time) and Peugeot don't currently sell into the American market.

I'm obviously missing something here.  Where, or why is it set in stone that there can only be one race per country?  Makes no sense at all.  You mention that Peugeot doesn't sell cars in the US?  Audi, Toyota, Porsche, and Ferrari do, and its the largest market for them.
Let me get this straight, there's a already important race, that they know will be well supported, enormously well attended, just outside of one of the largest cities in a country that is the largest market for most of the manufactures participating in your championship.  But you won't include it in your WC because the great god FIA has decreed THERE SHALL BE ONLY RACE PER COUNTRY (NOT LESS THAN ONE, NO MORE THAN ONE, NOT TWO, NOR THREE, BUT THERE SHALL BE 1-ONE-UNO, ETC)
That is f**ked up FIA logic at its finest, or worst depending on how one looks at it.
Feeling like beating head against wall...
Fax

Porsche, and Ferrari only have cars in GT and not works teams so they don't have the same level of involvement. Toyota were only a tentative entry at the time so did not figure too highly in the equation. Money makes the world of motor sport happen, and without major car manufacturers involvement, you don't have a manufacturers championship.

There is no doubt that Petit Le Mans is well attended, and is an important event, but the FIA and ACO made the decision that the series could only allow one race in the USA. You can be absolutely sure that the manufacturers involved in the championship were consulted and involved in that decision. You may not like it, or agree with it, but it was not an irrational or illogical choice. In the final analysis, we really don't know what bargaining went on behind the scenes that led to the shape of the WEC 2012 calendar. Who knows.. it may even be that Atherton and ALMS would only tolerate one cross-over event and the confusion and dilution that inevitably creates. They may not like the prospect of Audi stealing the podium in BOTH of the blue-riband events of the ALMS, while ignoring the rest of the series.

 

Absolutely right, I have no idea what sort bargaining went on behind the scenes or what factors shaped the schedule.  I'm looking at it purely from the perspective of an enthusiast of sportscar racing for over four decades.
My gut feeling is that in two years the ALMS will still be racing in front of large audiences, and FIA championship will have gone the way of the dodo bird.
Fax

What happens, GF, to teams like IMSA Porsche Matmut?  Do the organisers/Porsche/whoever help with the costs which will be involved in shipping the car to the States, or are the sponsors expected to pick up the tab (given that they're pretty much French insurers and a French Porsche dealership and don't have much of a US market as far as I know?)  It does seem a bit tough on the European teams to have to go all that way unless there's some help.  I'm sure the info' is out there somewhere but thought you'd probably know the answer!

In the case of the WEC, the series organizers put together a fixed price logistics 'package' for the teams racing the whole series. As far as possible, they consolidate the freight going to the 'fly away' venues to keep the cost down. As for who pays... that depends on how the individual team is funded. In GT that can sometimes be down to the team owner/driver alone, anything from that, up to being fully funded by sponsors/partners. 

Hmm.  Well, I guess they still get the TV coverage but I'm not sure I'd be very impressed with this if I were a European team with little US interest in the product on offer from my sponsors.  Sadly Narac won't be at Spa or I'd have asked him!  I don't suppose Porsche minds.

Yes, there is still value to French sponsors in a 'foreign' race, particularly if there is TV coverage in their home country. Partners are usually more interested in being seen on TV / internet / print, than by race fans at the circuit.

Maybe by having a cull of the poorly supported ELMs and GT1 series it will strengthen the ones that remain.

The few teams that did commit are going to take a hit, some sponsor deals will have been sold on a complete series I would guess. Hopefully those cars that did compete and exist can be found a new home and boost grids elsewhere.

Not really shocked to hear this news. The writing was on the wall the day they announced the calendar.

What they need to do now is start to listen to the privateer teams who make up the bulk of the entries and not so much the fickle manufacturers who are at the mercy of the bean counters on the top floor. Forget the European Series and find a way of making the WEC more attractive and affordable to the smaller teams and their sponsors. If that means more rounds in Europe and North America than so be it. Why go to the Middle East when no one cares about the series or Endurance Racing? The only reason they go there is for Audi and Toyota, and as they only make up a fraction of the entry it cannot be justified. Both Toyota and Audi are global brands and should be happy to race anywhere in the world, so why we have to go to places no one wants to go is just plain daft.

Pretty much the same reason that F1 has all those races in the Middle and Far East now   ---
£££  $$$  £££  $$$

Money makes motorsport happen. It has always been the same. It has never been 'for the fans' despite what you might read on a series strap-line. A series goes where the money is, not where the fans are.

There seems to be a dividing line between funding a campaign in a 911 or a Ferrari and the LMPs.

Porsche did the sport a great service by selling as many 956/962s as they could.  This doesn't happen as we have a few works cars at the front, and they'll win.

My dream rule is that unless there are 15 works cars they get banned.  Sorry Audi, but this isn't a one make race

I suspect Big Cheese has a point in that Atheron, and the ALMS are probably getting a bit fed up with the Audi policy of showing up for their two signature races, scooping the hardware, and then blowing off the rest of the series.  I would hope that the ALMS put their foot down and say look, either commit to a full campaign, or supply customer cars for teams wanting to do so, or your entries for Sebring, and PLM will not be accepted.  But everbody knows the big manufacturers have the sanctioning bodies by the balls.
Fax

Lovely discussion. Carry on  ;D
Phil

But didn't we have one make racing in the early days of the 956/962, ok there were customer teams but most of the grids were made of 956/962's of varying specs?  Of course once Jag, Merc, et al came along things changed,  but they didn't provide customer cars.

At least with the R8's some were available to customer teams, but I think the days of privateers being able to run the same cars as the factories has gone I'm afraid.  And do we really want to dumb down the teams at the front?  Personally I don't. 

The ACO almost have it right with LMP1 and LMP2, but there is a case for a LMP1.5, for teams that can afford to run pro drivers, but can't afford a works car,  the Rebellions and Strakka's of the world for example.  They can't run in LMP2 cos they have pro drivers, and can't compete with Audi and Toyota in LMP1.

I'm not advocating endless classes, GTE AM and Pro seems to work outside of ELMS, just make LMP into three classes, and have the LMP1.5 in ELMS/WEC.

Maybe with the demise of GT1 World and GT3 Euro we might see some more ELMS entrants at that level.

If all of the various championships could work together on calendars and rules then it would probably be for the good of them all,  but hey what's that pink thing going oink flying past my window!

Concur...

Don't understand a bloody word of it... just like listening to Lazy B's (Dr Scones) mates at the campsite...

>Martini...LB

Correct. The current FIA championship is entirely underwhelming and completely off the public's radar screen.

I have to agree. In a rare moment of leisure last night I flicked through the planner on the Sky box doo-dah and watched the recording of the ALMS round from Lime Rock Park (the US equivalent of Oulton Park??) and whilst there might have been a lack of big name LMP teams at the front, the racing was excellent and the crowds plentiful. It was certainly better than anything we have witnessed in the ELMS and WEC this year.
Food for thought indeed.

It was the same at Mosport last week, and will be more of the same at Mid Ohio next Saturday.  The lack of big name factory LMP entries hasn't deterred the fans from showing up, and the GT battles have been terrific.
Fax

I suspect that it's the lack of 'big name factory LMP1 teams' that are  ringing the fans in. Who wants to watch 3-4 Audis driving around in formation to another win? The smaller teams have similar technical resources, similar budgets and some good drivers. That makes for good tight racing. That's what I want to watch.

Interesting phrase in the latest FIA/ACO press release where M.Fillon talks of 'partners, Manufacturers, Sponsors and Teams'. It could be a slip of the tongue, but in these days of well polished PR drivell it's interesting that he should speak of of the obvious pecking order. How about giving the 'Teams' a little more importance?

I'm still seeing two many terrifying parallels to what has happened in the WRC. Stuff the manufacturers, just keep the privateers happy. The rest will look after itself. Without the rank and file that make sportscar racing so interesting, we are heading for dark times indeed.