Club Arnage

Just a note to say thanks to all Ca'ers and others who made a donation to Club Arnage Charities after downloading the Guide this year.

I've analysed the donations made, and the results are quite encouraging.  Whilst the door is still open for more donations (it never closes!!), I don't believe there will be many more now.


A total of 41 people donated £358.39 after Paypal and currency conversion charges. The smallest donation was £2.50 and the largest £30.

Of the 41 people, 32 were UK based (£), 8 were euro (€) and 1 was CHP, and all bar 1 managed to mark it as a gift, so Paypal fees were minimal.


Whilst this is still small beer compared to the number of downloads (how many Werner??), it is a bit better than previous years - around 15% increase in value.

Del

Whilst it's good to see a rise in the donations, as always, it's disappointing to know that the majority of downloads are made on the sly without making a donation.

Shame on any CA'ers that have done so!  And double shame on any non-CA'ers who have used a guide produced by the members for the members without making a donation!

Agreed!

If you compare it to a generic car ormotorsport magazine that you might buy for £5/€6 then the content and entertainment must be superior. 

And if you assume that it's been downloaded with a view of actually using it at the 24 Hour, (rather than research for a visit in future years), it just has to be worth an trackside beer or two.

You must of course factor in a little that some people may pay once, but download to multiple devices - work PC (for colour printing he he), home PC, iPad etc. then there's the, I forgot where I saved it, so download it again.

So the actual number of people using the guide may be up to half the actual download.

Still, there must be some CAers who are still to give their donation.

Aricus

I tried to use the charity download thingy from Paypal but it didnt give me the proper place to make it

Not sure now but I may have used the banking details method instead




then forgot to download it, print it and take it with me

ho hum  :(

Yes, you did, Bill.

I made a small donation at the time but i am going to make another once my pay arrives in my bank :)

I didn't get the gift option, just "money transfer", but I am a well known money launderer, and probably forgot to pay last year.

This is the first year I didn't print it and left it on the tablet :o

So how many downloads were there?

Aricus

Roughly about 1.500. The number of downloads is going down  ;) year after year, it was actually much higher in the beginning, when we started the guide 2006. I think the reason is that there is more and more information on the web now than it was 9 years ago. When we started the guide it was unique - but today even the ACO folks are getting their act together and are publishing proper entry lists and race week schedules.

So it would have been nice to have had a £1 for each one then  ::)

I downloaded, paid my money, printed one page and left it at home...

>Martini...LB

Djet tells me that the guide was downloaded 6,473 times.

That excludes any downloads from Werner's backup location.

So it's still very popular then - testament to Werner's and other's efforts to produce it and update it.  It is, frankly, completely unmatched by anything else - everything is in it, from the history, regs, programme, cars, drivers, how to get there and back, where to stay and go, and what to do. 

Way beyond my technical or practical know how, but as most people seem to have smartphones and/or tablets these days, might it be worth thinking about making it downloadable via purchase through an app, rather than free download and voluntary contribution?

MG Mark

So eight thousand downloads makes it worthwhile for Werner to have done it all again   :angel:

Just be nice if we could get a higher conscience response from people

I'd just like to say thank you again for a magnificent effort Werner and your assistant/correspondents

I'll be bunging again next year if you give us a new one

And shouting on line in various places how nice it would be if the charities get some more dosh out of it too if you like

Bill

Oops, hope he's right,that would be great. Do you know what timeframe he looked at? I'm asking because the download link never changed over the years.

Werner

As I understand it, "we" use certain logos (ie the ACO) for free as there is no money made. If a nominal fee is required, it becomes commercial and may open up a whole new set of problems. Werner, am I correct?
Personally, a £1 per download as a nominal donation is a small token for the effort made by all

Werner, that is just this year's downloads from the day the pdf was uploaded until this morning.

Yes the CA guide is allowed a few privileges because it is 'not for profit', however we are subject to the normal rules of copyright and trademarks. From its earliest stages, CA has been a way for racegoers to help each other, rather than a commercial enterprise, and I think it is still going 20 years later because it still stays true to that aim.

And long may it continue in that vein it's one of the many things that are good about CA. 

To avoid any confusion, I wasn't for a moment suggesting anything other than that any proceeds from the Guide continue to go to charity. Just surprised by the low number of donations compared to downloads.....

MG Mark

Hi Jason,

as far as copyright is concerned the guide has always been ok - I'm sensible in this area and try to take care of that as good as possible. We never used any official logos and AFAIK all pictures and texts come from CA members. For all non-CA stuff (DSC articles, John Brooks pictures etc) I have collected written permission from the authors. So from that point of view going commercial would not be a problem.

However, IMHO going commercial would require a different approach to quality control - because once people pay for something, outdated information about campgrounds and dozens of typos would not be accepted any more. We would definitely need more researchers and authors and more proof-readers. I personally could not invest more time in it, I still have a full-time day job...

I wonder if it is possible to produce two versions of the guide, one with a watermark on every page asking for a donation, and one without.  Once someone has made a donation they get sent a time limited link to a version without the watermark.

I know that would require some admin, but it's just a thought.

We need someway of shaming the cheapskates into coughing up something for the charities!

Hi Werner, that is as I thought, and know that you'd not infringe copyright etc.
I do agree that there would need to be a lot of extra work would be needed, While happy to help, I too have a job that needs attention. But surely there are things that can be done early to relieve deadline pressures?

I am not aware of anything that offers anything like the guide.

I think that we should be more persuasive about giving money for a download.  It doesn't have to be agressive, just suggestive.

UK Government has been successfully experimenting with using wording to encourage people to be compliant. I will do some digging, but I think clear wording that cannot be missed along the lines of "most people who download the guide pay £5/€5"

Aricus654

I think that we need to set a recommended donation in the download page and (importantly) on the front cover.

Any views?

Aricus

Is definitely worth a try. 3 Pounds/Euros?

Difficult one this.  If a suggested amount is posted, some people - who usually pay more - may only give the suggested amount.  A quick count shows me that the spread of donations this year was:
£
20-30 x 1
10-19 x 8
5-9 x 9
<5  x 2
with a few more at €10.

If suggesting (say) £3 would drag in 100 more donations, then it would be worth it.  But if it dragged in only a handful, then it may not be.

Del

I really think that people need guidance on the amount to give.  They also need to feel that they are not standing out.  This technique is regularly used to encourage people in advertising and even in persuading people to pay taxes.  Something like Suggested Donation £x.  Ideally it would be backed up by "the average donation made is £5", (except that my maths makes it £8.74, which might be perceived as on the high side.)

Aricus

I noticedthat a forum I don't visit that regular anymore posted a direct link to Werner's backup location. I saw it first 2 months after the race, so I didn't say anything about it (last post before I read it was4 weeks old), but I will check next year if they do so again, and then will ask them to drop that link, and link to the funding page instead.

Good spot - might be one of the reasons for a reduction in downloads. 

MG Mark

I really think that the guide is a Thing of Great Value.  It is the CA crown jewel.  Some of us might buy hats, mugs, t-shirts etc, but the Guide is the thing that is likely to result in the greatest donations and is also the path to greater brand recognition and, and only then, to selling CA branded items.

We need to exploit the CA membership to spread the word about The Guide.

I'm keen that we work with a range of partners including the ticket agencies that provide excellent service (and who participate on this forum), Radio Le Mans, who we all know and love, and I'm sure that there are others.

We can start by getting the word out that we would love help from knowledgeable folk to help with the guide.

Thoughts?

Aricus

I've just lost a great friend to cancer and want to give some dosh to those who help the fight. I thought i could donate through CA if thats ok, but as i have allways gone direct before how do i go about it? Thanks from a sad Lofty.

From the Guide:

Payments can be made by bank transfer or Paypal to the club Arnage Charity Fund from where the funds will be divided equally to each of the charities listed above.  (These are Cancer Research and Motorsport Safety Fund)

Bank Transfer:  Account Name:Club Arnage, Bank: Natwest, Sort Code: 60-03-27, A/c Number:78121477, IBAN:GB31 NWBK 6003 2778 1214 77, BIC:NWBK GB 2L

Paypal:  Please go to www.paypal co.uk and donate to cafund@hotmail.co.uk.  Please note: You need a paypal-account to do so. Please ensure your payment via Paypal is marked as a Charitable Donation which will nor attract any fees.

If you wish to donate to only one charity, please let me know and I will direct the funds to that charity only.

Del

DelBoy thank you , i've never been to that part of the forum.

I just use dear old PayPal.

That said does CA get clobbered for fees?

Not if you mark the donation as Charitable Donation.

Del

Hi!

Del,

Can you tell us how popular the guide was this year - do you have figure for the number of downloads and donations please?

Aricus

I cannot comment on the number of downloads, but the donations:

There were 15 (only) donations ranging from £4 to £23, giving a total of £204.02.  The small change is due to the conversion of 3 euro donations.  There may be the odd additional donation later, but it is unlikely.

This total compares (sadly) with £311 in 2014 and £338 in 2015.

Del

There's to be a few bob more from me, sort it tomorrow and it's well worth it

Whaaaaaatttt???!!!!!

Fiiiffffttteeeennnn.......


 >:( >:( >:(

Pretty shocking when GF tells us on the FB page there have been 9492 downloads of the 2016 guide since 10th June .... A lot of people are getting a lot of content for free  :o

I still haven't put in the kitty for this year, payday tomorrow. Then I will