Club Arnage

since we lost Senna. (Just over 15 years to be precise)

where's the time gone?

There was an article in todays paper about him........well, it was more about the 'war' between him and Prost. 

He may well have been a good driver, but I don't (didn't) like him as a person - a bit like Shoeface really!!

Del

With you there Del

f**k me, I'm I that old. It was a big thing for me as it was my first and only Monaco GP, 2 weeks later. The first 2 grid positions at Monaco were left clear with the flags sparayed on for Ayrton and Roland Ratzenberger who also died at the San Marino GP. I also developed my taste for Whisky that week  which has done me no world of good ever since !!!

AN ABSOLUTE HERO

A general, all round nice guy

Thinking about always Ayrton.

God bless your sole

An all round nice guy he most certainly was not. Personally I think he was a complete and utter idiot, a cheating selfish arsehole who should have been booted out of motor racing long before his accident. It's a shame he died of course, you wouldn't wish that on anyone. But I hated the twat when he was alive and I've felt no affection for him whatsoever since his death.

Without doubt a brilliant driver, but anyone who believes he is protected by God at the wheel of a missile is also undoubtedly dangerous in the end, whether to himself or others.

I remember that weekend well lets not forget about Roland Ratzenberger I remember him driving at Le Mans on my 1st trip back in ’92 for Toyota.  :(

Mr Z, I totally agree with your summation on Mr Senna and would add Mr Schumacher into the same category (who can forget him turning into Damon Hill, I think in Japan, just to take him off.

I would not wish an accident on anyone, but sportsmen, Mr S and Mr S were not.

Jem

A flawed genius, amazing car control and able to set a pace few could live with, knew how to get the best out of his team, (normally by screwing over his team mates).

Without doubt a legand, his need to win drove him over the limit however so for that reason I would not rate him as the best.

I do however think the personal Senna was very different to his public profile and maybe he was guided down a wrong path by his manager and team owners etc?

Are we not confusing sportmanship with being a gentleman?  If you're going to compete then you should be doing so to win.  Being a nice guy hasn't served many drivers well over the years (Reubens, Johnny Herbert, David Coulthard, Mark Webber, Berger, Heiki etc.).  What gets people is that Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton (most definitely in the same category) etc. pushes the sports laws to their limits.  When necessary they have been punished but have still done enough within the laws to succeed.

Reading around the subject and the man in particular I think it is clear that he had a very humane side that was locked away to all but his inner circle of friends and family.  To trample on his grave and call him a tw@t when you didn't know the guy seems a bit low.



I for one respect his dedication and will to win at all costs.  A significant part of one the glory eras of F1, I for one will remember him for the winner he was.  In the end he was undone by F1's rule makers who decided to run the cars behind a too slow safety car so that the tyres were so cold he bottomed out, lost all aero and hit a wall which they didn't put their foot down with the Italians to change.

Bergers accident in '89 earmarked it as a death trap, it should never have been there for him to hit.

     

I'm a bit late to the party, but what the hell, I can't resist a swipe at the departed pompous ass.
I'm with Andy on this, Senna was a utter jerk.  Most of the problems we've seen in recent years with driver conduct can be layed at Ayrton's feet.  He corrupted the racer's ethic with his "since I can't beat you in clean fight, I'll just nerf you off the road" attitude.  As Damon Hill and Keke Rosberg have both said quite openly, if the FIA had put the clamps on his antics from the beginning, we wouldn't have seen the sort of BS we got from Schumacher.  Young drivers saw him getting away with being a thug and figured if it was okay for him, they could behave that way as well.  I had little stomach for Ayrton the person as well.  His press conferences, and speeches could be mind-boggling with his arrogance, self-importance, and paranoia.  Listening to him blither on about his virtues and beliefs left you looking for something to throw at the TV.  The guy clearly took himself WAY to seriously. I've always been staggered at the number of hacks who while Senna was alive couldn't stand the guy, but as soon as he bought the farm began sainting him in the name of making a buck off the dead Senna industry.
Fax

I personally never knew Hitler, Saddam or Stalin, and theyre all dead too, but that doesn't stop me holding strong opinions on their appalling bahaviour. I fail to see why Ayrton should be exempt from this.

Senna was a bad sportsman and certainly was not a gentleman either. He was a cheat who had little regard for the the safety of his fellow competitors and other folk on track when punting other cars off. His stupid childish antics could easily have killed someone. Off track I always laughed at his egocentric paranoia and sour miserable persona.

Sorry but IMO the man was a total arse. A very fast driver admittedly, but I truly hated him and his disdain for his sport. Not much I can add to what Fax has so eloquently said.

Blimey.

I started this thread mostly as a passage of time sort of thing.

It's an identifiable point in history when I know where I was at the time, and although I've done lots since, I think it's strange that I feel no older.

I am older. I'm getting to the stage where I can't get out of a chair in silence.

I was only 9 at the time and never have been a fan of F1 so i am learning a lot from this thread  :o

Is there more than one Mike (Liverpool boys)?!  ???

Yeah,im Mike from scotland and Mike C is actually from Liverpool  ::)

Mike C was only 4 at the time!!   ;D ;D ;D

I wish I was only 4 at the time, you are only a few years out though JP. ;D

 :-X