IMSA manage to upset Audi!

[Fax]

Agreed Nordic, not a lot else won in the Can-Am but the privateers were in the fight though.  McLaren largely won on preparation, and obviously they had the latest bits.  But anyone could buy a year old design McLaren (at a very reasonable price) customer car and be right in the thick of the fight, especially if the factory cars ran into trouble (which they did from time to time, John Cannon at Laguna in '68, Tony Dean at Road Atlanta in '70, and Francois Cevert at Donnybrooke in '72). Lola also built some fine cars and of course Shadow was in there as well.  My point was that until Porsche came along privateers could still afford to take the fight to McLaren, Chapparral, etc.  But when Porsche came along the goalposts had been moved so high most teams couldn't afford to go there.  The same thing will happen in the ALMS.  Why bother competing if you know going in you've got no chance.  You hit it on the screws, if the manufacturers want to participate, than they should have to supply identical customer cars at a capped price.
Its what Porsche did before, and will be doing next year with the RS Spyder.
Fax

[Martini...LB]

What if they made everyone race in reverse??...

They have reverse racing in the banger sand racing on the beach at home, they also have pairs of cars chained together for a race.!!

>Martini...

[Lorry]

What if they made everyone race in reverse??...

Thats my kind of handicapping, but Audi would still win

[Andy Zarse]

You hit it on the screws, if the manufacturers want to participate, than they should have to supply identical customer cars at a capped price.
Its what Porsche did before, and will be doing next year with the RS Spyder.
Fax

It must have been a thrilling race in 1983. Such diversity!

Car Distance Speed Pos Car Drivers Number miles(km) mph(kph)
1. Porsche 956T 2649t Vern Schuppan, Al Holbert, 3 3136.50(5047.934) 130.70(210.330) Hurley Haywood
(AUS,USA,USA)
2. Porsche 956T 2649t Ickx, Bell 1 (5044.584) (210.191)
3. Porsche 956T 2649t Andretti, Andretti,Alliot 21 (4962.650) (206.777)
4. Porsche 956T 2649t Schickentanz, Merl, de Narvaez 12 (4927.218) (205.300)
5. Porsche 956T 2649t Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Keegan 16 (4887.404) (203.641)
6. Porsche 956T 2649t Ludwig, Wollek, Johansson 8 (4829.829) (201.242)
7. Porsche 956T 2649t Laessig, Plankenhorn, Wilson
18 (4736.462) (197.362)
8. Porsche 956T 2649t Lammers, Palmer, Lloyd 14 (4622.008)
(192.583)
9. Sauber BMW C7 3500 Garcia, Naon, Montoya 46 (4606.032) (191.918)
10. Porsche 956T 2649t Henn, Ballot-Lena, Schlesser 47 (4463.477) (185.978)

[Nordic]

Good choice of race. 1983 was indeed a classic, the winning car was being hunted down by its team mate driven by Ickx & Bell at a furious rate and on the last lap almost siezed solid due to lack of water.
http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p9287207.html
shows the winning car crossing the line, you can see the steam coming from the exhust. Tence stuff.

The start line up was not too shabby either. True by weight of numbers the 956 was always going to be hard to beat. But you also had the pretty & fast but too fragile Lancia LC2.
Ford Rondeau's with some support from Ford, Aston martin Nimrods, Mazda's and various specials from EMKA, WM, Grid, Sehcar (Sauber) and best of all a Porsche 928!

Oh to have a grid of 11 Audis matched by the various Domes, Creations, Zytek, Lolas, Pesca's and courage's in 07

[Andy Zarse]

It would just become single spec racing but with the works Audi (usually) winning.

And am I alone in finding the 956/962 a bit of a boring car to watch too, the Audi R8/R10 of it's day. It never gripped me really, with it's flat exhaust note and functional looks. No, I was never that thrilled by the 956's; they dominated pretty much every race. I spent my formative spectating years watching ETC instead, which did have a great variety on the grid and any of about four or five manufacturers could easily win. Alternatively it was Group B rallying, which was similarly open. It was only when Jag, Merc, Nissan etc put in a proper showing in Group C that I switched allegiance. Thing's aren't too bright at the moment but with Peugeot, Honda and Porker just around the corner maybe the sun is rising on sportscar racing at last.

[Fax]

Agree Andy,
Things look rosy on the horizon for LMP2, but I'd hate to see Audi run everyone off in LMP1.  Makes for mighty boring racing in the premier class.  Yes the 956/962 wasn't a thrill a minute car, but big FIA Group C and IMSA GTP grids bolstered by them (and C2 Spice's & Gebhardt's) made for entertaining racing.  And some of the battles between the privateer teams (Joest, Kremer, Brun, Lloyd, etc.) were terrific.  There might be a bunch of Audi's on the grid if they became customer cars, but having a big LMP1 grid with a group of Audi's is better then a small LMP1 grid with two Audi's.  I'm not a huge fan of big factory involvment in racing.  People argue that it adds credibility to racing, but usually costs go through the roof, grids shrink and the racing itself suffers.  The early ALMS races were a hell of alot less predictable and more entertaining when you had big fields of Ferrari 333SP's and Riley & Scott's all run by privateer teams rather than watching a pair of Audi's drone around followed by a couple of Lola's.  At least the LPM2 Porsche is keeping them honest....Until IMSA puts the clamps on them.
Fax

[Matt Harper]

And am I alone in finding the 956/962 a bit of a boring car to watch too, the Audi R8/R10 of it's day.

Yup, beat me to it Andy, I agree entirely. The 956/962 was not a visceral racer and nor is/was the R8/10. My first acquiantance with the 956 was at the 83 Le Mans race that you mentioned. I couldn't figure how they could be so subdued, but so quick. I have to say that the cars design, shape and presence (in Lang Heck configuration) was quite beautiful, in my opinion (quite unlike the R8/10 and even the R8 coupe) - but it sounded like my road car, at the time.
The various suggestions and arguments on this thread about customer cars are well made and convincing.
The 83 race was a great battle, even though 9 out of the top 10 were the same marque. (You forgot the Warsteiner M1 in your list of other memorables of that race, Nordic!)
Come what may, I still feel that punishing the winner is a kind of wierd way to promote a race series, however.

[Nordic]

The weight break given to the Lolas effects the P2 Porsche's every bit as much as Audi.

This adds credibilty to the thought that Dyson was assured that a P2 would not be as quick as a P1. The Porsche has proven that wrong and rather than slow the Spyder and go head to head with both Porsche and Penske and run the risk of them backing out form suppying other teams.

The fall out from that may also have risked the AGR & other Honda P2 teams, ALMs took the easier option.

I think we would all rather see cars speeded up rather than slowed.

Warsteiner M1, one of the best, great looking and the sound. magic.

[oldtimer]

In a previous thread I metaphorically tipped my hat to Audi for building to the current regulations a car that went on to trounce the opposition.  My feelings haven't really changed on the subject.  They won at Le Mans fair and square and can pretty much win wherever they turn up in America because of their genuine superiority.

That said I do have more than a little sympathy for those in this thread who desire closer racing but I do feel that regulation changes should come during the closed season.  A design that wins within the rules should be allowed to exploite its advantage for a full season... the idea that Audi should be made to supply customer versions of their car I do like though.

As has been illustrated, fine sportscar racing can be achieved with multiple entries of one type of car.. it need not be a train of cars going round in "almost perfect synchronisation".

The '83 race was indeed a classic Nordic.  Apart from the closeness of the racing at the sharp end of the race one of my most abiding Le Mans memories of all is the site of the drivers in the 928 you mention trying to tame the absolutely viscous understeer they were experiencing in the Mulsanne Corner.  Lap after lap, hour after hour I stood mesmerised by the site.  It was hideous, hysterically funny and compelling viewing in equal measure.