Nige dons his helmet again

[Simes]

Mansell in the Ferrari 641 overtaking Berger in a Mclaren on the outside around Peratalda at Mexico 1990.
Brave and brave - did winge though.

[Lorry]

.......Or is it actually just a case that going around and around in a big circle isn't actually that difficult?......

Going round in a circle isn't difficult.  Doing it at 220mph is.  And without a couple of years practice is more so.  So yes, Dan Wheldon has my vote, but is he a wingeing Brummy?

[Andy Zarse]

. Mansell was an F1 World Champion (you dont win that without the best car, ever!)

See Schumcher/Benetton 1995.

[Fax]

Brad, I really have no idea where your going with the personal attacks, I'm a better man than that and won't waste my time in a juvenile pissing match.  This is a bebate over the pros & cons Of Mr. Nigel Mansell.  My point all along has been that yes, Mansell was brave, drove some terrific races and made some ghastly f**k-ups.  Won the World title and the CART title. BUT!....Behaved like a complete asshole the whole time!  Its not just about winning, but how you win as well. That might be a bit old school but it still matters to me. When he won it was a heroic effort on his behalf, when he lost the team let him down.  That was the Mansell I remember.  For the most part he treated the people around him like sh*t.  And no, its like that in every sport or with every athlete, a great many win with dignity and grace, Mansell never managed that.  Agreed about Senna,  Andy, he was sh*t of a person but had mesmeric skills, shame he acted like a jerk on the track.  Once again its not just about winning.  But disagree about the opinons of team personal, actually they are the best qualified to tell you a drivers true character. If the guys a charger and respected by his peers and team, thats enough for me, sheer statistics have never impressed me.
Fax

[Snoring Rhino]

. Mansell was an F1 World Champion (you dont win that without the best car, ever!)

See Schumcher/Benetton 1995.

Yes but that puts another dimension into the equation - Ross Brawn, Schumacher would not have won as many world championships (impossible to say how many +or-) without him, he is the best, most devious tactician the sport has ever had.

[Abs]

I wouldn't rush to see Mansell racing anywhere, I believe that the man had bollox made of steel but a brain made of the same material.

His pursuit reminds me a bit of McRae in the rally scene just didn't know when to back off as he had the thing wrapped up.

As to say that the winning is about him and not the team, that is total sh*t any driver worth his salt looks on each win as a team triumph.

[jpchenet]

Fax, I think you’re making your point a bit strongly.

I'm sorry Ian but I don't think the strong comments have been only one sided! I think most people on the forum know that Fax's knowledge of Motorsport is probably one of the highest amongst all of us. For Brad to accuse him of not knowing anything about motorsport at all is pretty condescending!

Unfortunately, I think we are back to the age old situation of email and forums being a cold form of communication and unless you personally know someone to know there turn of phrase and demeanour (and I can happily say that I have met John and he is a top chap, as are Brad and Ian!) then we shouldn't be passing comments about each other. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion!!

FWIW, I think the guy is an arrogant arsehole (Mansell that is!!). But then I also think you need a certain amount of arrogance to be good at anything you do! To put your life on the line at those speeds I guess you have to be supremely confident in your own abilities. I think most drivers would also be confident in their team's abilities too, which unfortunately was Mansell's major downfall as far as I am concerned. A bad workman.....................!!!

Would I have paid to go and see himn drive at his prime, you bet! Will I pay to see him drive now, No!

Let's hope Ian and Brad can make it to Sebring, or that John can make it over for Le Mans next year, then we can all shake hands over a nice glass of lemonade    In the meantime, lets leave comments about fellow forum members out of it shall we!

[Snoring Rhino]

After re reading the posts, you have a fair point Mark, personal comments will be amended, appologies. Fax, I am sure we will all have a drink and shakehands in the spirit that is LM.

However I can not agree to Mansell being effectivly degraded to sombody who was bad for the sport. We all know what a tw*t he could be (and frequently was), but the fact is that Nigel was a huge character in F1 and generated massive interest, and he was very entertaining. He was a people's hero as anybody who was at Silverstone in 92 will recall (and it was the biggest crowd ever at a british motor race), I don’t think there has ever been such total support for one driver (except maybe by the Tifosi for Ferrari). It is a shame that the poison dwarf has driven the sport so far into corporate wealth and responsibility that it is not about entertaining the fans and working class hero's any more, as we know.
There is a good comparison between McCray and Mansell, in 97 Brad did his work experience for Tony Jardine at Jardine PR  - they did the pr work for the Network Q rally (the old RAC) and he got tickets to the Silverstone stage, which included the 2 lane special stage. McCray was on a totally different plain to the rest, totally committed and very entertaining and again drew huge crowds. But again frequently overcooked it and didn’t finish and could be an arse, but the interest in WRC grew immensely.
 

[Fax]

I think much of this is about perspective.  No doubting his hero status with the British racing fans much the way Senna was in his native Brazil (or Japan for that matter).  But as I mentioned in another thread, when Nigel came over here to race Champ cars he didn't exactly endear himself to anyone.  US racing fans tend to have little patience with whiners and frankly, Nigel did a hell of alot of it.  Was good value to watch on the track though.  He would have been better served to let his driving do the talking for him and kept his pie hole shut.  We'll debate it over a cold beer at a race soon.
Fax

[neilsie]

After re reading the posts, you have a fair point Mark, personal comments will be amended, appologies. Fax, I am sure we will all have a drink and shakehands in the spirit that is LM.

However I can not agree to Mansell being effectivly degraded to sombody who was bad for the sport. We all know what a tw*t he could be (and frequently was), but the fact is that Nigel was a huge character in F1 and generated massive interest, and he was very entertaining. He was a people's hero as anybody who was at Silverstone in 92 will recall (and it was the biggest crowd ever at a british motor race), I don’t think there has ever been such total support for one driver (except maybe by the Tifosi for Ferrari). It is a shame that the poison dwarf has driven the sport so far into corporate wealth and responsibility that it is not about entertaining the fans and working class hero's any more, as we know.
There is a good comparison between McCray and Mansell, in 97 Brad did his work experience for Tony Jardine at Jardine PR  - they did the pr work for the Network Q rally (the old RAC) and he got tickets to the Silverstone stage, which included the 2 lane special stage. McCray was on a totally different plain to the rest, totally committed and very entertaining and again drew huge crowds. But again frequently overcooked it and didn’t finish and could be an arse, but the interest in WRC grew immensely.
 

I was there that year - the year of "Mansell Mania" - as a race marshall, so post race I was in the paddock, and saw two drivers talking about their race -  Senna and Mansell.  Senna yet again did not finish the race, but comended the team on their succesful ability over his.  Mansell simply stated "I was better than good".   
So we walked away from him and his soapbox (Mansells halo was warming my beer), to scoff steaks and drink cold beer at some other teams shack.  Then got to listen to the F1 band...   excellent race, amazing crowd , pig header winner.