Bl**dy French Car (No Le Mans content though)

[garyfrogeye]

A rant about My Renault Megane Scenic.

On my frogeye, over the years, I've changed many mechanical bits including the gearbox (four to five speed), propshaft, and cylinder head etc.

I tried to replace my headlight bulb (£4.99 from local motor factors) on my Renault and it turns out that you have to remove a large part of the front bodywork including the front bumper, as access is so restricted.

I called Renault UK and they said
"Yes quite a few people have complained about that. It's a half hour job and will cost you anywhere between £50 and £90 and No we can't use your new bulb, we have to use one we supply".

So on the basis that it's illegal to drive on French roads (and British for that matter) without all your lights operational and without carrying a spare. What are you supposed to do if one of your headlights goes while driving on the motorway.
Wait for a tow truck?

Renault UK told me that they had to design it that way or they couldn't fit the engine in.

I told them B0ll0x

[nopanic - neil]

Not just Bl**dy french cars, 

PT Cruisers - you have to get up inside the wheel arch, remove a panel to remove the light bulb holder to remove the bulb. - WOT -imagine that on a wet motorway.

Saw on a focus web site,

I changed upgraded my 2002 Focus TDCI headlight bulbs a couple of times myself . You have to take off the lower engine cover . You have to jack the car up for this and remove the nine Torx30 self tap screws. Then remove / drop the thick plastic engine cover. Up in the front corner of each wing is the LOWER 10mm bolt this is the THIRD BOLT on each headlight assy. you cannot reach from the top / engine compartment. Then just waggle the grill carefully, or/and remove the two threaded 10mm bolts here lhs. & rhs of the grill. Then the headlight assy. will just pop out! As I am going to this trouble I change the *oil and filter at the same time, ( I have only fitted headlights bulbs twice ) * around 6.5K from last service and 6.5K from next. I have been doing this since I got the car a few months old with 5K on the clock - oil, filter. It now done 70.000 miles and is going as sweet as a nut ! ALWAYS USE A QUALITY OIL DON”T COMPRIMISE, I did all the above today Sunday13-11-05, headlight bulbs, oil, filter..

Looks like the ford focus designers - were unfocused - 

[alibongo]

Hey bud had a similar problem on my 53 plate focus Rs , to change the n/s head light or sidelight bulb you have to remove the battery or swear a lot trying to get the back of the light off !!!

[rcutler]

My Company Laguna had a flat battery which was needed to be replaced as the cells had dried out. When I phoned them, they said, of all things:-

Bring it round today and we will replace it while you wait. (BTW it will not start was my response)

Then when I gave the reg they said "Oh it is still in Warranty!" They then followed with we will collect it from you place of work on Friday. It was Tuesday. So much for warranty repairs!!!

[Lawnmower Man]

When I have time I'll give you my Grumpy Old Man angle on modern cars.

Well my Laguna anyway.

It includes but is not limited to.  The crap way the door locks work, The fact you can't switch the Cruise control/Speel Limiter to KPH,  The beeps and f4rts it makes when you stop the car and get out,  (You learn to ignore them.  Thus you don't hear the one important beep that tells you the lights are on.) The user hostile interface to the GPS.  The easy to knock child lock that I really don't need at my age.   The cr*p bluetooth interface.  The sh*t RDS.   It takes the handbrake off automagicly.  Why can't it put it on?  Instead it flashes a message that tells you to put the brake on.  DUH?

If a bulb goes I think you have to relplace the car.   

Well last time a bulb went I phoned the leasing company,  They send someone along with a new car.  But it was only a Clio  I couldn't get on with it.  I was about to complain.  When the guy came back with a replacement Laguna.   Looked just like my old one.  Same Colour, same reg,  same mileage give or take.   But my car was never that clean! 


t.

[Matt Harper]

My Dad had a Citroen CX Athena in the late 70's. The RAC man who regularly attended to peer into the engine bay and scratch his head declared that this was why the French should stick to designing knickers. The old fella's party trick was to firmly close the bonnet, which caused the boot lid to fly open - all very Laurel and Hardy. The self-centering steering and the fruit-machine speedo was a bit of an eye-opener too.
Personally, I've never been a huge fan of les voitures francais - Ryton-built Pug 309 and 405 "Grunders" saw to that.

[Big G]

So on the basis that it's illegal to drive on French roads (and British for that matter) without all your lights operational and without carrying a spare. What are you supposed to do if one of your headlights goes while driving on the motorway.
Wait for a tow truck?

Renault UK told me that they had to design it that way or they couldn't fit the engine in.

Bit of a moot point this with modern cars. Whilst it is true that it is an offence to drive on most european roads with non operational lights, the regulations with regards to replacement of bulbs actually only require that it can be done without the use of special tools.
There are many vehicles where it is pretty much impossible to change the bulb insitu, and requires the removal of the headlamp from the vehicle, and this is usually because of the amount of crap that is being packaged into engine bays nowadays. The offending articles are usually batteries and aircon units. Audi for one state in their owners manuals that bulb replacement is a dealer operation! (this seems to be a way around the special tools requirement) It seems to be accepted that you are OK if you are driving your car to get the bulb replaced.
As for the £50- £90 quid, be grateful you aren't driving a Bentley GT. To remove the headlamp requires the disassembly of the entire front end...bumper, wing, subpanels, aircon, intercoolers etc...at one point it was being discussed about dropping the engine aswell!!. Outside of waranty comes in about £1000 
Oh, and if any of you have cars fitted with HID lights and have a burner go on you, do not try to replace these yourselves. 25KV can do lots of damage to fingers

[garyfrogeye]

So £60 and half a day later, I have all my lights working, until the next one goes pop. It's not the cost so much (although I do think it is a ridiculous price to pay to have a bulb put in), it is the extortion element.
As for special tools, how many people (except classic car owners who tend to have more stuff than they will ever need) carry a star drive socket in their boot.
It was the "couldn't really give a t*ss" attitude of the garage which really annoys me.

Whinge over

[Big G]

Yeah, they really shouldn't be using torx screws where access to servicable items are concerned unless they include the relevant tool in the tool kit. We use torx screws on lamps where there is a requirement for something to be tamper proof. (covers to HID units etc)
I really think it is out of order for these vehicle manufacturers to knowingly produce vehicles where bulbs can only be replaced by dealers. £60 to replace a £1.50 bulb is daylight robbery.
P.S. for info, the average life of an H7 bulb @ 12.8v is 500 hours. Most vehicle systems run at nearer 13.5v nowadays with about a 30% reduction in the bulb life, so expect to be replacing your halogen bulbs after about 300 hours of use.

[pretzel]

Oh, and if any of you have cars fitted with HID lights and have a burner go on you, do not try to replace these yourselves. 25KV can do lots of damage to fingers

Yep, mine has these, and from what I understand the replacement process is a bit of a rigmarole and can only reasonably be carried out by a dealer with his sonic screwdriver set.

I believe the HID units have a much longer life than standard Halogen bulb units but I just know that there will be considerable expense should it ever have to happen. Never mind the extortionate labour rates - I'm told the units are £500+ 

[nopanic - neil]

Makes me smile all this, my Herald - Changed the H4 bulb (yes ive upgraded the lights - but not the dynamo yet - like driving in a Charlie Chaplin balck and white film)

4 screws - 10 mins tops -  Cost new bulb £4.00 !

This is a K reg motor as well.

Some things don't just get better with development - just more expensive.

[nickliv]

I think that with a HID equipped car, when the lamp unit fails it's perfectly acceptable to put it in a ditch in the dark, write it off, and blame the blown headlamp.

Never mind perfectly acceptable, it's probably cheaper.

[wishy]

Triumphs have their ideosyncracies...

Having owned a Triumph Stag for 22 years ....any repairs were easy peasy,compared to my Mk1/2 Espaces....!)I replaced 10 clutch pedals due  to crap design.....but what a fantastic vehicle for transporting washing machines and other white goods to customers houses.....but last I year had to upgrade to a Fiat Ducato van due to increased business as Lawnmower man can confirm!!!.....having spotted me in Tilehurst recently

Plus we needed larger transport for transporting our encampment to foreign climes.....in June

Wishy

[Big G]

I believe the HID units have a much longer life than standard Halogen bulb units but I just know that there will be considerable expense should it ever have to happen. Never mind the extortionate labour rates - I'm told the units are £500+ 

Yeah, you are right, HID units should have a life of between 3K -4K hours (lifetime of vehicle). One of the reasons why car manufacturers are packaging engine bays as they are because as the uptake of HID increases so the need for access to change headlamp bulbs decreases. However as with all things, infant mortality/rogue units will occur in a number of instances. Retail a new burner is about £80, to us I think we buy them in @ around about the £5 mark!! So factor in an hour or 2 labour and there is your cost. If you have to replace the electronics then you are talking £500+ atleast. Just watch the insurance premiums start to climb when HID headlamps have to be replaced after shunts

Oh, and if anyone is thinking about these aftermarket upgrade kits you can get for about £100...dont! The reflector forms for halogen and HID are completely different and you will have an illegal lamp. Not only that, but even if the kit has an E mark, it is still illegal to use it in a lamp that was approved with a halogen bulb. Now the chances of being pulled over for this are fairly low, but you may find your insurance null & void if you make a claim with these kits in place.

[garyfrogeye]

"However as with all things, infant mortality/rogue units will occur in a number of instances.

Yes two bulbs on two different Renault Meganes in two weeks! but the previous one (an older model) cost £4.99 for the bulb and took thirty seconds.

The garage said not only can't you put them in yourself, but you have to have a full tank of petrol so that they/the computer can align them properly (or something like that).