The Schumacher/Senna bashing thread.

[Boorish Grobian]

Its interesting how different the regulations are regarding defending a position, whats exceptable, and whats not, between the FIA and Indycar.  There was a lot of talk over the Mid-Ohio weekend regarding the penalty imposed on Helio Castroneves two weeks ago in Edmonton, for what was deemed to be "blocking".  Most people are of the opinion that this penalty was excessive, and that Helio never altered his line, or made any sort of defensive maneuver.  In all fairness, Brian Barnhart, the competition director for Indycar runs a tight ship and doesn't put up with any bullshit from the drivers at all, some of this of course is because of the nature of Indycar racing where running in close quarters at dangerously high speeds (210-230 MPH) is regular feature, and the consequences of doing stupid things can be damn serious (witness Mike conways Indy 500 shunt).  He's swift with judgement & penalty, and I suspect if he'd seen one of his drivers pull the sort of stunt that Schumacher did, he would have been chucked out of the race on the spot, and would most likely be sitting out the rest of the season.  I'll take that sort of official over the knit-wits at the FIA, who collectively can't decide on the color of toilet paper in the bogs, never mind steward a motor race.
fax

[Brad Zarse]

Defending is part of racing - I saw the Castroneves incident, and was slightly bemused to be honest - he kept his line, no weaving, surely thats the point?  His JOB was to block Will Power, and stop him getting through?  His JOB is to make his car as wide as humanly possible - it's his right of way if you will, if he wants to cut across the racing line to defend, that is his RIGHT!!

If we start policing motorsports with "half track boundaries" (as Barnhart seems to think) then we're not actually racing any more, simply strategising on which side of the track to go - his explanation of the penalty is utter tripe.

The video is here: http://www.twitvid.com/Q3IEC

Now you tell me where the block is?

 

[Boorish Grobian]

No Brad, your wrong cutting across his line is NOT his right, you defend your positon by maintaining your line, braking deeper into the corner, then holding your position. Weaving all over the place, and pinching someone into the pitwall?  Thats not defending your position, its just being pig-ignorant.  This is where your youth shows Brad, you obviously assume this is the way its always been, wrong!  As been brought up before, that mind-set of "I'll do whatever they let me get away with" to keep you from coming through is a product of Senna.  You would never, EVER! have seen a Stewart, Lauda, Fittipaldi, etc. reduce themselves to such childish manuevers.  What had people confused about the penalty to Helio is just your point, he didn't alter his line, weave or any of the crap you see in F1 now.  But as I said, I'll still take a race steward who's decisive, makes up his mind about a situation and acts on it.  As Andy said, watching Hungary one would think lagging behind the safety car was a more serious offfence than almost running someone into the pitwall at top speed.
Fax

[Brad Zarse]

No Brad, your wrong cutting across his line is NOT his right, you defend your positon by maintaining your line, braking deeper into the corner, then holding your position. Weaving all over the place, and pinching someone into the pitwall?  Thats not defending your position, its just being pig-ignorant.  This is where your youth shows Brad, you obviously assume this is the way its always been, wrong!  As been brought up before, that mind-set of "I'll do whatever they let me get away with" to keep you from coming through is a product of Senna.  You would never, EVER! have seen a Stewart, Lauda, Fittipaldi, etc. reduce themselves to such childish manuevers.  What had people confused about the penalty to Helio is just your point, he didn't alter his line, weave or any of the crap you see in F1 now.  But as I said, I'll still take a race steward who's decisive, makes up his mind about a situation and acts on it.  As Andy said, watching Hungary one would think lagging behind the safety car was a more serious offfence than almost running someone into the pitwall at top speed.
Fax

Firstly.  I'm not that young.

Secondly, that is exactly what I said.  Essentially though, if he wants to squeeze Power to the outside of the corner, and cause him to come off of the power, that's his right - he's making his car wide, and that's racing! Having taken his defensive line, he then has the right to come back onto the racing line at the exit of the corner is what I meant (although I can see how what I said was misconstrued).

I was commenting on the Castroneves incident - I see nothing wrong with that at all.

Schumacher is a different kettle of fish altogether.  I admire the guy for his ability to win at all costs, and I can understand rash moves like that out of desperation, if what you're fighting for is the race win that will win you the championship for example - for 10th place when you've no hope of winning the championship? You must be mental!  the fact that it was a move made on an ex-team mate just makes it worse.

I don't mind a race official who makes a call, but when that call is so blatantly wrong, you have to question whether instant penalties are the right solution?

[Bentley boy]

I was commenting on the Castroneves incident - I see nothing wrong with that at all.

If thats classed as blocking I'm glad I don't watch it 

Watch the ALMS race from Mid Ohio last weekend to see a proper race   

[Boorish Grobian]

M point in all this is that here you had two examples at polar opposites to each other, one where there was a lack of officiating, the other a case of over officiating.  But ultimately both F1 and Indycar are made for TV fiasco's, all that being said, watching Castroneves going ape-sh*t after the race in Edmonton (I think I said it was Vancouver...Ooops!) was fricking hilarious, one official when asked what he said to Helio, when he grabbed him by the collar, said "I told him to breathe" he was turning blue...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=738rYz3iGX0
Agreed BB, the ALMS race was terrific, real racing and a superb win for The Dyson team and the Lola-Mazda.
Fax

[Andy Zarse]

The rules state that you can make one defensive manouver. The rule was brought in to stop people (AKA Senna) swerving all over the place in a "win at any costs" manner. What the rules do not allow you to do is push someone onto the wall. If MS had moved across to block the inside line BEFORE Rubens was level, then that would have been fine. But he didn't, he left it way too late and nearly caused a nasty accident.