Group B Rally documentary

[Jules G]

Heads Up for all you group b rally fans, BBC 4 Sunday 1st April 2012 21:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01fcncc

From the producer of Grand Prix: The Killer Years and the Grierson-nominated Deadliest Crash: The 1955 Le Mans Disaster.

In the 1980s rallying was more popular than Formula 1. 'Group B' machines had taken the world by storm. De-regulation opened the way for the most exciting cars ever to hit the motorsport scene. Nothing like it has ever happened since.
'This is the fastest rallying there has ever been' - Peter Foubister.

For four wild and crazy years manufacturers scrambled to build ever more powerful cars to be driven by fearless mavericks who could handle the extreme power. The sport was heading out of control and the unregulated mayhem ended abruptly in 1986 after a series of horrific tragedies. This is the story of when fans, ambition, politics and cars collided.

'The fans were crazy. As the cars sped by the spectators ran into the road!' - Ari Vatanen

'They were playing with their lives'.

'To go rallying is madness. This was refined madness' - John Davenport

Featuring world champaions Ari Vatanen, Walter Rohrl, Stig Blomqvist, plus Michel Mouton, Cesar Fiorio,

Off to sky + it now 

[Lazy B'stard]

Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to seeing this.

When you look at the WRC today you do have to wonder where it all went wrong. I did hope than Mr Todt would fix things being from a rallying background but as yet.....

I live in hope.

[Jules G]

Si,

I think World Rallying is lost for ever, I cannot see it coming back to the same level of the glory years. 

That's why I did not go and watch the BRC round 2 event in mid Wales at the weekend, 20 Fiesta's, Citroens C2's and a couple of Reggie Twingo's, nah I stick with the memories I have.

Jules

[Barry]

Thanks for the heads up on this, I would have missed it otherwise.
Remember those cars and their drivers with awe.

[gt6]

Just watched the trailer for this and after the last two programmes from the same people on FI and the Lemans Crash I will be ordering my copy as soon as

[Lazy B'stard]

I drew up a manifesto for the revival of rallying about five years ago. I just wish it would be put into practice. It would revive the sport in no time at all. It was spectacular, affordable and had relevance for road car technology. It would bring every maufacturer under the sun into play and most importantly bring the spectators back.

The concept is based around common spec components to keep costs down. There would be a spec transmission and drivetrain package- a mechanical diff, rear wheel drive and a manual six speed gearbox devoid of any electronics, and a spec coilover, twin wishbone suspension package. A manufacturer would then supply any body shell from their range and a turbo 1600 or a 2500 atmo engine, and fit the spec trans and suss package. Aero and exterior bodywork would be free to make the cars look good but would be made using non carbon composites to save money. The engines would be cost capped and would have to be made available to privateers for no more than 20,000 euro per unit to avoid the use of exotic internals. A standardised turbo and ECU would used by all teams again to cut costs and prevent development budgets spiralling.

The events would run for a minimum of four days and include a minimum of 20% stage mileage run in darkness. Servicing would be restricted to 3 mechanics per entry and the total spares package minus fuel and tyres would have to fit in a two metre cube box. Mechanics and spares would have to fit in a Vito sized van and follow the event around the route- no centralised servicing to prevent an event staying in one place. Management cars, chase cars, tyre note cars etc would be banned. All teams would run a spec tyre too- if it doesn't suit the conditions then drive accordingly... Everyone is in the same boat.

There is much more to it then that, but I have it all written down somewhere.

The cars would be simple and quick and very spectacular to watch, the event would be spread out around the host country bringing in more spectators, who would then create a demand for more media coverage, which in turn would bring more publicity, more manufactures would follow. The manufacturers would have a platform on which they could be competetive without having to develop expensive suspension and transmission systems, or spend hundreds of thousands on composites, and have cheaper on event costs. The result is a very low publicity to cost ratio, which in today's world is just what is needed. The spectators and the media would have a cracking sport to follow once again. It's a win win situation for all involved.

At the moment it's dogged by huge costs, a lack of media interest and a lack of manufacturers. Something radical needs to be done, and done quickly.

Si

[Jules G]

Si,

Some interesting thoughts there especially the idea about number of mechanics, total spares etc. Cars built to last from the start.

Similar to how all the teams ran in the Safari Rally in Kenya, they were built to last. although toyota did have a full time team in Kenya practicing IIRC . These days the components have such a short life span of a few stages, the cost is so high for team. I am sure Prodrive did some work some years ago on a standardised drive train package and gear box was that 4 x 4 though?

One thing they must get rid of is the current system of split times been sent to the crews mid stage, it should be flat out from the green light on the first stage, ban should also be in place for team members to be mid stage as well feed back the splits.

We should however keep chase cars, used to be a real hoot running a chase car on events I was not competing on

[Lazy B'stard]

We live in different times now Jules. The reason they gave us centralised service was to cut down on the number of support vehicles following the route. We still have management cars, tyre crews, timing crews etc darting all over the place though and some of these vehicles need to be shipped from event to event... Increasing costs and number of personnel on events. It also gives the greenies something to moan about.

We need a vast reduction of cost to make it more attractive to car makers. Building simple, rugged cars that are free from expensive technology not only cuts costs but makes the car more 'raw' which in return makes for a better viewing experience. One solution solves the other problem head on.

Group B rallying was the beginning of the end in many ways. The proposed Group S regulations that were canned in 1986 would have been a step forward, but we will never know for sure. The Group 4 era of the late 70's and early 80's were a real high water mark- the cars were reasonably affordable judging by the huge entry lists, and from a spectators point of view they were great to watch. Today's cars are much faster but less exciting to watch. A return to a simpler formula could bring back that excitement.

Si

[gt6]

No the only way to get the fans back is to make the cars, noisy, spit flames and fall apart (so fans can collect bits to take home) that is why we loved the group b days.

[Barry]

If you can't watch or record it at 9pm, it's repeated early Monday morning,  01:10 to 02:10.

[Jack the Hat]

Loved group B, But Group 4 MK1 and MK2 Escorts were the best, the every day mans car tearing up forest stages mmmmmmmmm. Add a smattering of Ascona 400's and Chevettes, Toyota Tureno GT, Alfa Romeo Veloce. Light weight, rear wheel dive, and cheap thats what rallying should be.

[Chris24]

Really well made documentary, some candid  and frank views shown there by all interviewed. Well worth a watch and recording to watch again.

R.I.P. Henri Toivonen

[Fran]

Very interesting - and some of it quite terrifying to watch!

F

[cdco2]

Good to watch and brings back loads of memories, the first rallies I properly went to watch as a teenager were at the height of group B, not just the Lombard but also the national breakdown and the manx. Crowds weren't quite as mad as Corsica and Portugal but mad just the same. Group A never quite got the blood going quite as well.

Carl

[Barry]

If anybody missed it, it's being repeated again on Tuesday, at 8pm, BBC 4.