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Author Topic: American Sarthe Trekers  (Read 31581 times)
Jonnyspa27
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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2006, 01:05:53 am »

Thats why I read so much of motorsport history to try and learn all about it. I read Roebuck in Motorsport and any other publication I see him in. Include Alan Henry, Gerald Donaldson, Maurice Hamilton, Gordon Kirby and Doug Nye to the list there. I'd have loved to have met Cevert, what a charasmatic guy. I'd place him a VERY close number two to Gurney in my personal list of favorite drivers in history. I do have some sort of perspective on the sport at the time, not from experience mind you but from reading tons of books and mags along with any piece of film I could/can get my hands on. I'm interested to hear your perspective on the state of F1 and motorsport in the late 70's and early 80's. I'm always up for a good racing discussion or story!  Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2006, 02:42:32 am »

If you really want to get a feel for the sport at the time don't rely too much on what your going to read in contemporary publications.  Roebuck and Henry were both barely tolerable in their prime but are clearly bored with the sport today, if you've read Roebuck's book the GP Greats, thats about all you'll get from him worth its weight.  Anything regarding the history of the sport he paste & cuts more or less word for word from that.  Roebuck and Henry also have a annoying habit of being biased to people who they were close to or sucked up to them.  Roebuck was a chronic Senna basher when he was alive but as soon as Senna bought it Roebuck gushed all over him knowing damn well there was going to be good money in the dead Senna industry (PS, I still think Senna the biggest asshole the sports ever seen).  Your best bets are to dig up old copies of Motor Sport, Grand Prix International, and Formula.  Jenks, Jabby Crombac, Jose Rosinski, Henry Manney, Barry Gill and Pete Lyons are the best there has ever been.  You'll be wasting your time with Roebuck & Henry. Hamilton's okay and Joe Scalzo  and Gordon Kirby will give good insight into the Champcar scene of the seventies and eighties.
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knetter
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« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2006, 10:12:13 am »

I was thinking of doing one for Jan Lammers in the Jaguar XJR-9LM, decked out in the 'Silk Cut' colors. I'm still kicking around some ideas for that and for a similar t-shirt scheme. I'll keep you posted on how it will shake out. Of corse I'll stop by for a beer!  Smiley

That is a great idea! I would love to see that. If you are going to make a shirt, I think we will have some ways of even presenting one of em to Jan himself. We are hoping he will make an appearance at our site this year. Last year he sent over some mechanics. My guess is that they will be coming over for the soccer game on friday night!
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« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2006, 11:05:24 am »

My guess is that they will be coming over for the soccer game on friday night!

soccer?

soccer?

soccer?

soccer?

I take it you mean football  Angry Grin
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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2006, 11:23:34 am »

What's that then  Huh
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2006, 11:39:58 am »

My guess is that they will be coming over for the soccer game on friday night!

soccer?

soccer?

soccer?

soccer?

I take it you mean football  Angry Grin

Americans have a different opinion as far as football goes. So yes, soccer, just to keep it clear for our US visitors.
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2006, 01:27:25 pm »

Fax,I'll have to take your word for it that Roebuck actually produced something worth its weight, he was one of the reasons I stopped reading Autosport. I found his columns so sycophantic that they put my teeth on edge, and when he wasn't being sycophantic he was so busy dropping names he lost track of what he was actually writing about. I don't think there was any denying his knowledge of the sport, even though he seemed to think 'the sport' meant F1, but why he didn't translate his knowledge and contacts into passionate articles about why F1 has gone down the tubes I don't know. All in all, I think he has found his level, ie writing a drab weekly column for a publication that's decided it's market is morons who only want to read 'Hello' style articles about F1 and its drivers.
H
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« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2006, 02:13:15 pm »

Hi H,
Its mostly worth its weight as a beverage coaster!  However for the poor bastard who doesn't know a thing about the history of the sport its a place to start I suppose.  Couldn't agree more with you about Roebuck, the name dropping and putting his two cents in on everything from smoking to the EU gets old fast, and as you said, one of a catalog of reasons I dropped the bird cage liner (Autosport).
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Nordic
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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2006, 03:55:40 pm »

Thats why I read so much of motorsport history to try and learn all about it. I read Roebuck in Motorsport and any other publication I see him in. Include Alan Henry, Gerald Donaldson, Maurice Hamilton, Gordon Kirby and Doug Nye to the list there. I'd have loved to have met Cevert, what a charasmatic guy. I'd place him a VERY close number two to Gurney in my personal list of favorite drivers in history. I do have some sort of perspective on the sport at the time, not from experience mind you but from reading tons of books and mags along with any piece of film I could/can get my hands on. I'm interested to hear your perspective on the state of F1 and motorsport in the late 70's and early 80's. I'm always up for a good racing discussion or story!  Smiley

The best thing you can do IMHO is to get hold of magazines written at the time rather than to rely on books written after the event. They are full of info blessed with hindsight and opinon mostly based on info from people who where not there or have a hidden agenda.

I enjoyed reading Joe Saward as well as those Fax has mentioned, I do think Doug Nye has a geniue love of the sport and is quite readable.

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Jonnyspa27
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2006, 04:28:20 pm »

I was thinking of doing one for Jan Lammers in the Jaguar XJR-9LM, decked out in the 'Silk Cut' colors. I'm still kicking around some ideas for that and for a similar t-shirt scheme. I'll keep you posted on how it will shake out. Of corse I'll stop by for a beer!  Smiley

That is a great idea! I would love to see that. If you are going to make a shirt, I think we will have some ways of even presenting one of em to Jan himself. We are hoping he will make an appearance at our site this year. Last year he sent over some mechanics. My guess is that they will be coming over for the soccer game on friday night!

That would be fantastic to have a shot at meeting Mr. Lammers, I always rated him highly  Smiley Yeah and knetter, I call it football and I'm an American so its all good. You say it Voetball correct? I'll bring my boots, but I'll leave my keeper gloves at home, I've since retired  Wink

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Le Mans '07 goals:
1)Just to get there!
2)To have a beer w/ Johnny Herbert
3)Keep drinking for Holland!
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« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2006, 04:37:42 pm »

Every year there are discussions about organising a football match between various groups at Le Mans but for some reason it never seems to happen, can't imagine why?  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes 

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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2006, 05:02:04 pm »

Nordic, agreed bout Nye, one of the very best historians of the sport, as you very well put it, no hidden agenda invloved, gives a very honest and straightforward read.  He's fantastic with marque  and chassis history. His book Lotus, The Formula 1, Indy and Tasman Cars is THE definitive volume on the subject.
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Andy Zarse
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« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2006, 05:53:55 pm »

I quite like Maurice Hamilton. His commentary on Radio 5 Live is miles better than James "The Cock" Allen, who IMO personifies the "plastic" people involved with the sport just now. I once heard him say "back in the day" when talking about Graham Hill. No honestly, I did! The scruffy twat should at least learn to tuck his f**k*ng shirt in and buy a comb. If I watch F1 (it usually has to be rainning hard or whatever), I turn off the TV sound and listen to the radio commentary.

For some satirical insight into coming season, then I commend this:

http://www.sniffpetrol.com/

Stop the Cock.
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Kpy
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« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2006, 06:14:50 pm »

KPY,
I know the work at LM isn't finished yet, so we could all stand to be corrected (although after looking at those aerial pics of the ongoing work, I doubt it), but are we losing something in the translation here?
It seems the ACO do not really have an appreciation of why their race is so popular or what makes it special. It looks from this side of the water as if they are trying to alienate the racing fans and downgrade the spectacle. Or are we missing something? - what's the opinion of the local French fans?
H
The ACO are a bunch of self-important blazered w@nkers. The dealings I've had with them over the years have left me with the impression that only the girls in the booking office, who are superb, are any good at their job. The translations on their site and in their press releases are rubbish, because they choose to use an agency which does not employ native English speakers. They can’t even set up an on-line booking system – they’ve passed at least three deadlines for opening it already, and currently state that it opens last Monday! Their marketing department employs people who, I suspect, would make your Audi PR person seem polite. Several years ago they told me that they would not consider selling a concession to sell ice around the campsites, as there was no call for it. When I said that the risk would be mine I was told that it was people like me who caused trouble for them.
The problem is that the ACO gets large grants from the local authorities on the grounds that they bring tourists, and therefore money into the area.
I’ve spoken to quite a few locals at Le Mans, who live within or close to the circuit. Of course opinions vary, but there’s an element that feels that the influx of large numbers of sober, semi-sober and plain drunk guys, added to the inconvenience and noise is maybe not worth the free tickets handed out by the ACO. Actual French fans come from all over France and you’ll find quite a few like Fab and Bernard B on the 10/10ths forum. Gilles is one of the biggest fans of La Sarthe, Le Mans and the 24 Hours, but, last time I asked he wasn’t an ACO member. I think the general opinion about alterations to the circuit, Village etc. is pretty much universal.

Speaking of demolition of landmarks, has Montlhery been flattened now too?  Last I heard it had been closed and was headed for the wrecking ball and bulldozers.  That would be tragic, far more so than Rouen.
Montlhery has not been demolished. It’s lost its competition license for lack of the cash to repair the surface and strengthen the banking.  See http://asalm.free.fr/ The place is mainly used as a vehicle test and certification centre, and, sadly, visitors are discouraged except on rare Open Days.
Have to admit to being mystified at the French lack of regard for their motor racing heritage.
I don’t buy the “French don’t care” thing. One point is that racing and rallying on closed roads is a very old French tradition. Circuits used for genuine road and street racing change as those roads and streets change. Some are swallowed up in developments like Reims, some are changed out of all recognition like the 1906 French GP circuit at Le Mans, and some like the 1907-1913 Dieppe and Rouen circuits are still recognisable. We have Historic Grands Prix at Monte Carlo and Pau, the Grand Prix des Remparts at Angouleme, the Grand Prix de l’Age d’Or at Dijon. The Tour de France Auto, the Monte Carlo Rallye Historique, and God knows how many minor events all over France. Bernie may own Le Castellet, but at least it’s still there http://tinyurl.com/njn43 . There’s a new circuit at Clermont Ferrand, and you can have fun looking for the old one. There was to have been a new circuit in Normandy to replace the loss of Rouen, but politics reared an ugly head and Mitterand forced the choice of a new GP circuit to Magny Cours, close to his home base of Nevers. Bah!
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« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2006, 06:52:12 pm »

Some excellent points made KPY, and if I'm honest with myself I can't say that Americans are any better at protecting our historic racing venues.  After all Riverside Raceway and Ascot Park have both gone the  way of the Dodo bird and been reduced to housing subdivisions and shopping malls.  Very good to see there's still racing at Clermont.  I suppose at the end of the day my frustration comes with seeing the once mighty Circuit de la Sarthe reduced to a Scalextric track in a large sandbox, in other words a formula 1 circuit.
fax
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