Le Mans golden Era well and truly over???

[Smithy]

Our group have been regular atendees at the race over the last 10 years, but I have to say that I wonder where we go from here.
I have 2 "beefs" that I will be airing with the parties concerned...

ACO..."Join Club 24" is the cry from the advertising literature...my question is why?
ACO stand tickets, camping tickets ...no priority booking or availabilty of said tickets it would appear. They appear to have been predomianantly sold to the travel compaines. Discounted entry tickets??? see below

The 2 major tour companies...Take the cost of the aforementioned stand ticket in €, multiply it by 1.5 and put £ in front....oh and by the way you have to buy a full entance ticket from us which, guess what, is priced using the same fomula. Discounted ACO member entry no use at all.
"Join us on the Arnage Excurion"....£15 each, timed bus there and back...sounds great eh? However, when you come out of the enclosure, come and find us for your return bus at our bus stop, which we've conviently located in the middle of the queue for the ACO provided free bus.  I am staggered there wasn't a riot, especially when the locals forced the rear dorr of the bus and got on anyway.
"Enjoy our hospitality tent"....except " if it's raining, don't come here"...charmed I'm sure!

I appreciate that times change, the event changes and nothing is asit was, but have got to a situation where the fans are just cash cows to be fleeced as much as possible?

Maybe we have to do as suggested and dig a bit deeper to find new LM experiences but I have a slightly bitter taste over the direction that we appear to be heading.

[Andy Zarse]

I've rarely read a thread on Club Arnage with so many negative posts and it's made me quite cross. I've attended every race since 1988, this year was my twentieth, so I feel I'm reasonably competent to comment on how I see things.

There seems to be a a large degree of "rose tinting" going on here. Yes, the golden era was fifteen to twenty odd years ago; the golden era of hooliganism that is. If anyone thinks the hooligan element is worse now than twenty years ago, I'm sorry people but you are plain wrong. You've obviously all forgotten or are unaware of the Our Nige (Mansell) and JAG-U-ARHHH-LA-LA-LA people, there were bloody thousands of them. During that era I saw a number of serious assaults on ACO staff and other workers at the curcuit, the swearing and general atmosphere of menace and belligerence was far worse than anything on offer today. I've not even mentioned the England v Germany issues, the taunting on the terraces of Porsche and Merc fans or indeed a mass brawl in the old Beire Kellar in the village (for those old enough to remember that place) which saw tables, chairs and glasses flying about and people being beaten on the floor.  I defy anyone to tell me anything like that went on this year. So some French people were booing God save the Queen were they?  I'm very surprised that the supposed massive increase in British Chavs, boorish Nationalists to a man no doubt, let them get away with it! The French wouldn't have bloody well dared try that on back in 1989! So I'm at odds with the notion that this year "chavs" attended in increased numbers. I hear this comment every year and I'm sorry but it's complete baloney. For what it's worth I thought the numbers of what might trendily be termed "socially excuded youngsters" were significantly reduced. In fact I saw pretty much zero bad behaviour from wednesday through sunday. Sure there are some idiots but you just need to know how to avoid them. For example HA roundabout and Arnage on the friday are now a no-go zone. A couple of our lads went there and met some absolutely ghastly fellows for whom violence was all. Paul and Chris very gently took the piss out of these idiots and we subsequently had terrific fun aping and mocking them and their distorted values all weekend.

Furthermore, I reckon the numbers of "drunks" walking around the curcuit seems much less than in the "golden era" too; the lack of the fair ground has put paid to that. Incidentally, the fair is now utterly pathetic, and the 80's were the golden era as far as that's concerned.

What other myth's about the old days are there? Oh yes, The Village. The new one is magnificent. I for one bemoaned the destruction of the old "rotunda" champagne bar a few years ago, as nothing was built to replace it. But just think back to the horrible old collection of woodworm-ridden tumbling down sheds, smelly concrete bunker house toilets, the dust, the over-crowding and people pissing everywhere. Now tell me you want that lot back? No thanks!

Really, I could go on; tent theft, traffic, the police, ticket prices, the ACO, bad driving and all the rest of it, people bitched about it then and do now. So for me it's a case of the old plus ca change and that meme chose thing. Golden era over? Nonsense!

[mgmark]

I've rarely read a thread on Club Arnage with so many negative posts and it's made me quite cross.....So for me it's a case of the old plus ca change and that meme chose thing. Golden era over? Nonsense!

Amen to that brother, Hear Hear, and Hallelujah, Hosanna and all that - see the "What I enjoyed at Le Mans" thread 

MG Mark

[Douglas]

I have never been one for complaining formally; usually a few days after any bother, whether on holiday or otherwise, I run out of steam and move on.
My LM experience this year was disappointing and disheartening. To save a lot of verbiage the problems were:

• Theft on campsites
• the pretence of security

• the appalling food available at the circuit
• the lack of sufficient sanitary provision for campers
• drunken yobs
• corporate influence
the obstructed views of the cars
• the loss of promenading opportunities, (ie Arnage corner on Friday)
• the use of the 'safety car' to sanitise all of the challenge that the elements posed
The ACO rely on the income from Brits, Dutch, Danes etc., to finance the events at La Sarthe. Without the punters they are nothing. Unless we go,(to the 24hrs, Classic etc.), the ACO itself will collapse, and corporate sponsorship will only want to support the race as long as there is a 'public' to advertise their products to and feel more important than.

My experience with a thief at 5am on Sunday morning mentioned by others on another thread was demonstrative of so much that is going wrong. We can't go around simply beating crims up, these days you are as likely to get stabbed for your trouble, there were four working together in my particular instance. However; when you point out the crim to security staff, you expect them to do something about it, (they watched as he 'tried' a few other tents with his three mates), rather than standing around smoking Gitane and watching the race. The 'security' on the campsites was a sham and ironically some of the crims used, "only security" as their excuse when caught in the act.
The Police of any description were not interested in my complaint at all! 'Private land' they said!

The crime has turned into an epidemic, we can only take sensible personal precautions, the ACO

haveto act professionally, or any respect they still retain will be diluted and then lost, as I fear will the race.

The cost of employing Police inside the circuit would be an expense, however; they have the professional skills and the authority to act summarily. When the cost is spread between all of those who attend it would be minimal expense per head, and what a fantastic relief it would be for us all to know that matters were in safe hands. It would be a cost that I would be happy to suffer.

Can I implore those who speak of providing our own security, to think again? We will be accussed of being vigilanties, someone will get hurt and the damn crims might even sue or bring their mates back.

On the subject of changes to come, I have heard the following from a very reliable source.
ACO are intending to insist that all camping is in tents provided by them,at considerable expense, as with their experiments this year at various locations with Quecha rabbit hutches. No personal cooking facilities will be allowed inside the circuit perimeter; unless inside a caravan/motorhome etc. which will have their own site, probably BSJ. They will restrict grandstand seating to all but corpoates in Durand and ACO tribunes.

What a bloody disaster! We are representative of so many of the ordinary folks who attend simply to enjoy themselves, why don't we complain by letter/petition to the ACO? I have no doubt that were we to contact all of those with whom we have a link that they would support such a move and the numbers would be substantial. As a group we are powerful, our economic input to La Sarthe should not be underestimated and without us there is no race.

On the up side the DfH party was as good as ever and the auction a great success.

We need to act soon or lose our excuse to escape the apron strings (of home and work) for a day or two.

How about it?

Doug

[Snoring Rhino]

It is a shame that there are a higher number of complaints this year, we, the SPS crew, had a great time, even some who detest camping (still been going for 6/7 years though) especially in the rain, had no real complaints. I guess the rain will always put a dampener on it, apparently Beasuredore (sp) was like a quagmire (sp) but a work virgin colleague who was there has vowed to go back next year.

I feel sorry for the victims of theft, yes the problem seems to be getting worse and the ACO must improve security before somebody takes it in there own hands and it escalates into a bigger problem.

I was not impressed by the behaviour of a minority at the POO bar as it reflected badly on the vast majority of civil Brits that helps to make LM what it is (fortunately NO CA shirts were involved, I believe)

So in some ways not a vintage year but more than made up for by the CA crew, DFH crew, and our French hosts who remain very tolerant of a bunch of very daft buggers.

[redstu]

I'll be back next year but with a map rather than just memory for finding my way about , and a cheapo tent alarm just to amuse the nocturnal scavengers, and maybe a spare pair of jeans in case it rains again.
Each year you learn a bit more and meet more good people and the good memories are the one to stick.
Don't let the bstds grind you down.
just make a note of what you would do better (if anything) next year and stick to it.

Roll on 2008!

[termietermite]

In general I think the facilities have improved enormously - the new village looks sanitised maybe, but the trees are still young so it will improve - and the bit with the view over the paddock was a great innovation.  The loos around the village are so much better than ever before - more showers etc.  What's wrong with the food?  The cold tray meal at 10 euros with starter, meat, salad, bread and cheese is excellent and I could live on Rillette baguettes.  Also great nosh in the bleu car park.  The Balcon and the new ACO members' area at MB are both great - especially given that they are temporary as the new Welcome area is delayed.

The Tertre Rouge banking is a great improvement and well thought-out, especially the provision of disabled access.

ACO membership is excellent value, the savings on entrance tickets and camping alone can pay for your membership and the literature (driver profiles etc - plus the run-down hour by hour) is a good plus.  The bars in the stand, the old museum and at MB are a good peaceful places to chill out with good clean loos and really pleasant staff (who greet me each year like an old friend - is this because I always say hello to them when I get there and thank them when I leave?) - plus they're 10% cheaper than elsewhere.

As far as booking is concerned - that's fine - it's first come, first served.  Just book earlier - it works.

There is a lot of corporate stuff but there wasn't much evidence of it in the ACO grandstand - I for one was sitting amongst a whole bunch of people who were knowledgeable and obviously interested in the race - a stark contrast to the last time I was at a British GP in 1990 when nobody around me knew what they were looking at.  Most of the corporate stands seemed to be concentrated on the inside of the circuit at MB - not a spot that I remember watching from.

I was lucky, I had nothing stolen (the few things I took that are worth anything were locked in the car during the 1 and a half hours I was asleep.  Apart from the cretins at the poo bar (who thankfullly departed pretty smartish), the idiots in front of the Lagache grandstand (who thankfully weren't interested in the race so departed pretty smartish) and the prat with the Focus who insisited on churning up the mud outside DFH as we were packing up - everybody else was charm itself and I thought the poor staff on the gate coped really well with a system which must have been as much of a nightmare for them as it was for us - they were still smiling by the 10th time they scanned my ticket!

I wonder if we try too hard these days and whether our rose tinted memories of how it once was have as much to do with the way we've expanded the way we do this, as anything else.  I'm quite tempted just to go back to turning up with a bivvie and kipping by the circuit for a couple of hours - I'm sure I enjoyed it more before I acquired all this stuff?  Our visitor from the States - Xander (goodduck) brought himself and a sleeping bag and hitched to Mulsanne for the night and had a great time.  Maybe we're making things too complicated for ouselves these days with our fridges, generators, gazebos,  and huge tents.  Maybe it's the simplicity of the old days which we really miss?

[Lorry]

This year certainly was different.

The marked pitches in MB seemed to work, as they stopped small gaps between pitches (or fire breaks as they're usually called) but we found ourselves strung out, with a lot of wasted space, rather than the usual "circle".  There was even a spare pitch next to me.  We had a lot of grief from security, even the boss man himself.

There really should be electric hook up, if this place is supposed to be civilised.

A caravan and awning is about 35m²

We had a leather jacket stolen from a tent on Sunday night.  The ACO should make sure that security is "security" not "warders".

The smaller stalls are now complete rubbish, and the only t shirts etc worth buying are the teams official ones.  What went wrong?

The overall view was that it was pretty disgusting, at the price , and there will be several letters of complaint to the president

[ecurie]

We (a group of friends and myself) have been going to Le Mans since 1994. As most people we always tried to keep a balance between watching the race and having a good time on the campsite (beer, BBQ, etc...).
The last few years we saw the number of "hooligans" increasing and generally the atmosphere deteriorating, so last year we decided to give it a miss and went to the Classic instead (which was brilliant). But we missed the real Le Mans and came back this year.
The behaviour of the "fans" at the Houx Annexe roundabout was disgusting (just glad I didn't take my freshly restored Triumph). Around 1am we went to the circuit to have a bite and a drink. Sitting in a tent (it was raining) an obviously drunk moron in a blue woman's dress (that's right) came over and started pushing me over, trying to pick a fight. I'm not a fighter so just left the tent, but he came after me, saying he didn't want to hurt me, but that was what was going to happen. Luckily one of his mates came after him and calmed him down.

Then, on the campsite, the badge on my friends 911 had been stolen, damaging the paintwork.

So, after 13 times, I surrender and won't be coming back :next year I will go back to the Classic.

[martbass]

Sadly this strikes a chord with me too. Have done Le Mans with a passion most years since 1989 but took a break between 2002 and 2004 (I was drying the tent out from 2001..). Having returned, the past few years have surprised me - the whole complexion of this event has changed. True enthusiasts now seem almost outnumbered by the pisshead fraternity who don't seem to give a toss about the racing nor those who attend for that reason. The owners clubs and variety of sports cars across the campsites seem to have been replaced by the 'Scooby Crew'. No offence guys, but some of your lot are really quite a disappointment. Motor racing as a sport has always remained free of the loutish behaviour found elsewhere. My experience this year suggests Le Mans has provided something of a platform and it would seem the long standing friendship with the good people of Le Mans may be spoiled by this. My car was vandalised on Friday night, as were several others in Bleu Nord (see my separate thread). Was this down to local thugs, or did the issue stem from our own ranks?
I heard of CS Gas being used elsewhere during the weekend - that isn't the Le Mans 24 Hours is it? I doubt any of these lager fuelled morons are reading this, but if you are; please just f*ck off to a football tournament somewhere and leave us and 'our' race alone.

[termietermite]

Happily, martbass, I feel pretty confident in saying that you are right, none of them will be reading this.  Which is why I won't ever give up on LM.  A chance to meet and greet all the guys and gals of CA is one of the things which makes the week in June special.  I don't think we're out-numbered by the yob element at all, just less noticable.  We know how to get p*ssed and enjoy the race in equal measure without spoiling the week for others.
Luckily too, it's quite possible to watch the race undisturbed by this small noisy minority as they are not in the least bit interested by what's going on on the circuit.  I spent 28 hours watching the build-up and the action and didn't notice them once.

[Steve Pyro]

Having just read the earlier posts, I admit to being a little confused.  Did I go to the same race as everyone else?

Yes, the rain was a bit of an irritation at times, but it was forecast and I took and wore clothing suitable for the weather experiencd.

At HA, we camped in our usual space, with our usual neighbours.  The surrounding campers were generally well mannered and amusing, we sensibly and responsibly locked our valuables away when we were not about and, hence, nothing was stolen.

We visited the Stella Bar on Wednesday evening and drank our usual skinful of Leffe.  We ventured south to Ecommoy for Thursday lunch, and drove to St Saturnin and took part in the CA Cavalcade (an excellent afternoon) during Friday.

The usual spots were visited during the race, start / finish in grandstand, Esses / Tertre Rouge (with first class new viewing banking), Arnage / Mulsanne corners - all despite a 'touch' of rain.

Entertainment and socialising with others continued throughout the weekend (Stella Bar / Poo Bar / DfH / Bob U's Sunday fireworks etc) and were good natured and lively, again, despite some rain.

We avoided driving to obvious hot spots and instead planned our supermarket visits etc to avoid traffic and burnout areas.

In all, a different, but still enjoyable year.  We will be back for some more next year.

In closing, that wet stuff that falls from the sky is only hydrogen and oxygen.  When you get home and unpack your gear, it soon dries out.

[Christopher]

I consider myself a newbie still with regards to attending LM (only been going since 1997) but within that short time I can recognise changes in the event, not just in the racing, but the organisation, facilities, traffic, camping, etc.

I think there is always going to be changes, some introduced by the ACO and other authorities and some a consequence of the behaviour by those that attend (not just the Brits, the Dutch, Danes and Germans are not so squeaky clean), and as individuals we need to decide if those changes are strong enough to keep us a way from the event.

I managed to avoid all the cr@p I don't like about current LM and still had a fantastic time. Even the weather made us laugh. To still get your enjoyment from the great event just takes a bit more effort these days. Find alternative routes to drive, other supermarkets, change your routine, etc and it is easy to avoid the nastiness.

Its good to have a moan, it helps us relieve the tension, but then once you have finished, stop and have a think and make an effort to not be a victim next time.

Some things are out of our hands, the ACO and organisation, etc., but getting caught up in the drunkenness, protecting yourself from theft, etc are all things we share a responsibility for.

Make the effort and you can still enjoy LM.

(apologies if this has turned into a ramble, but originally I wanted to moan, but then I thought about it on my drive home, and decided there was no need).

[Lawnmower Man]

Well in my view the "Golden age" will never end  it will just evolve.


What we want is State of the Art Sports cars racing and lots of them.    But that costs Money lots of Money.  To be able to build the Car the Team has to get sponsors. You can't expect a Major Sponsor to pay out the cash just have his name on the side of the car.  They want the peripheral benefits to like access to the Paddock and Team.  The day when it was enthusiasts racing have gone.

It's a difficult choice.   The old Pits and Paddock were awful for the teams. So when they rebuilt it they put in the modern corporate stuff.  The old village was over crowded the new one is much better.

Over the last 27 years I've seen lots of changes.  I think there is next to nothing left of things that were there when I first went.  The place doesn't have the Character it used to have.  But the old stuff was very dilapidated and not really fit for the purpose.

The activities on Mad Friday change too.  One used to be able to drive the circuit.  From Tetra Rouge to Porsche Curves.  There was always a gathering on the Mulsanne Strait.  The Mulsanne gathering was stopped after a bit of a kerfuffle when some P155 head sprayed beer in an open top car so the young lady in the passenger seat got out and Lamped him.  I also there that someone was hurt in a motor accident there.  I think the road between Mulsanne and Arnage was closed after some people thought it would be fun to spray super soakers over one of the Police Men.

Le Mans is very special that's why it's the only race that some people go to. 

t.

[grumpy]

The changes used to bother me.  I had a big flounce when they changed the catering and said I was never going again.  I missed one year and hated not being there so now that I am older and wiser I find my fun where I can and give the trash a miss.  I went to the Houx roundabout last year and I won't be going again.

Every year I find something new to do.  This year after previous dull attempts to drive in to town for the drivers' parade only to end up in the main square listening to the drunk hordes all evening I went in at lunchtime by bus, had something to eat in a small back street bar and several beers from roadside vendors, bus back to the circuit after the parade and then to the Stella Bar for dinner, more beers and a live band.  Great fun.

The Village felt better this year, though probably just more familiar and the poo-bar is still there.  I really will flounce if they take that away!

Biggest disappointment is the continuing decline of the funfair.  I walked all the way there from HA and really couldn't believe I'd bothered.  I won't be going again, though I suppose it is a lot closer to MB/Bleu where I imagine I will be next year.