New Time Keeping System Legality‏

[Kev_mk3]

Ok had a email from the MD in work about a new clocking in system in work and I want to ask you guys about the legal side of it. Heres the Email in short –

As you all may already be aware, we are in the process of having a new Clocking In System installed, which is finally bringing us in to the 21st Century.

This system is designed to save the Company both time and money, and also to simplify many internal tasks.  This is due to the fact that it will be linked to the Payroll System and will provide access to Holiday Calendars and the Attendance Register.  There will also be the facility to request holidays via email either whilst in the office, or alternatively via BlackBerry devices, whilst out of the office.

The System uses Biometrics, which is the simplest, quickest, most security conscious option available.  I can assure you that this system does not infringe on your human rights, and if it did, I would be the last person to use it, but as it is, I will be the first person in the queue.

If you do have any concerns, please do not hesitate to come and see me.

People have funny things they don’t like doing etc and I feel like this about giving my finger prints. Now its not in my contract about having to give them as my contracts about 2 and a half years old and im not happy at giving my personal details like that. Its all a bit big brother to me watching us and having my own finger prints in a communications company is a bit far, if it was a bank or something I get it but seriously it’s a bit much. I understand that the people who take the piddle coming into work half hour late everyday will finally have to get there on time or wages will be docked but IF I left they would still have my details aswell!

What are your views? I don’t want to lose my job for saying no or be bullied into give my finger print but im really not happy about it. Im meant to be having my review soon - well i say that i mention it every 2 weeks and ive been waiting a few months now 

 

Can you help?

Kev

[knetter]

finger prints for a clocking system??? Are they bonkers? What's next, your DNA profile, object at first, then look into legal options, I am sure this infringes on european privacy laws and therefore is not allowed.

[Kev_mk3]

Oh just been speaking the health and safty officer and basically they have ignored him on the matter as if there was a fire there's no hard copy of people in the office also visitors are no included :lol: oh the joys of this place

[geoffd]

What's your issue with them using Biometrics for a clocking in system?

They already know a great deal about you anyway, Most companies will have an employees address, bank details, salary, NI number, Next of Kin, Passport Number, etc, etc.

What they should have in place is a procedure for removing any data after the legal requirement has expired, Biomentrics included.

[tn*c]

Take the highgiene route and say that placing your finger on the reader will spread infections and illness and therefor you are unwilling to use it.

[Kev_mk3]

Geoff granted they have all that info but my finger print to me is a whole different kettle of fish

Vegas - if you saw some of the states here you would never touch a thing again. That has been mentioned I think, I know I have raised that issue

[Kpy]

Geoff granted they have all that info but my finger print to me is a whole different kettle of fish

I rather think you're getting your knickers twisted over nothing. Biometric employee entry systems ensure that fingerprint data is stored as a mathematical algorithm and cannot be used for any purpose other than identifying the employee for data collection purposes.

[Lazy B'stard]

These systems are rarely secure- potential for yet more personal information to get into the wrong hands. I'm still battling with Department for Work and Pensions about a case of identity theft 12 years ago when my ID was stolen and used to borrow money from a 'Social Fund'.
 In the next ten years all government agencies and banks etc will go biometric. I have no problem with that as long as the information is securely stored. Something that cannot be guaranteed at the moment.

Tell em to get stuffed.

Si

[BigH]

Dr Sconefinger is right, these systems are rarely secure, your fingerprints will be being exchanged for flasks of cheap vodka in Eastern Europe befor you can say Vladivostok.
A much better system would be a scan of your ring-piece, like fingerprints they all have their own little foibles. I believe this system is already in use in some ancient city institutions, and the confirmation scan can be matched to a trouser trump profile to ensure unique and unambiguous identification.
Picture the scene on a Monday morning in August when there's been a hold up on the M3, - you know it's got to be worth suggesting when your review comes up. Give them a demonstration on a sheet of A4 Conqueror.
H

[Perdu]

As a great conspiracy theory believer it seems to me they are smashing nuts to dust because they havent the bottle to sack the tossers who are causing them trouble

The "if you are a good boy it wont hurt" message doesnt wash with me either

but I fear they'll have you by the nuts 

[Steve Pyro]

I assume you've got a new passport Kev - that has a whole load of data about you stored in it's chip (with the potential to add biometrics later).

Have you travelled to the USA recently.  They routinely carry out an iris scan and scan both of your forefinger prints at entry.  A friend of mine refused to allow them to scan his fingers 'for human rights reasons' - the Department of Homeland Security refused him entry on the spot.

[Kev_mk3]

These systems are rarely secure- potential for yet more personal information to get into the wrong hands. I'm still battling with Department for Work and Pensions about a case of identity theft 12 years ago when my ID was stolen and used to borrow money from a 'Social Fund'.
 In the next ten years all government agencies and banks etc will go biometric. I have no problem with that as long as the information is securely stored. Something that cannot be guaranteed at the moment.

Tell em to get stuffed.

Si

Thats my issue

As a great conspiracy theory believer it seems to me they are smashing nuts to dust because they havent the bottle to sack the tossers who are causing them trouble

The "if you are a good boy it wont hurt" message doesnt wash with me either

but I fear they'll have you by the nuts 

they may have my gonads but hope they dont take more

I assume you've got a new passport Kev - that has a whole load of data about you stored in it's chip (with the potential to add biometrics later).

Have you travelled to the USA recently.  They routinely carry out an iris scan and scan both of your forefinger prints at entry.  A friend of mine refused to allow them to scan his fingers 'for human rights reasons' - the Department of Homeland Security refused him entry on the spot.

i have heard that the US are doing this now. Good job i never want to go there really as it doesnt interest me what so ever.

[pool pugilist]

This system (or similar) has been used on some major construction sites for a few years now, Im sorry to say this, but as a Business Owner or a Manager it is a fantastic tool. The biggest disputes we have with guys we employ and clients is always about money against hours worked, this just confirms or takes away the operatives or customers argument in an instant. (Still doesnt indicate what they have actuallly produced in those hours thank fu*k!!! or I'd be out on my ar*e!!)
If you are that way inclined it also measures AFR (Accident Frequency Rates) enabling Safety Bods to identify trends etc.

In regards legality....These are difficult times and I fully respect an individuals choice in not wanting to rock the boat, but, if this system was not covered in your original Contract of Employment and you have not been consulted in regard to its implementation other than to say you will now use it (Amendment to your Contract of Employment) then I cant see how they can make it mandortory.

Best of luck anyway!!



 

[Kpy]

This system (or similar) has been used on some major construction sites for a few years now, Im sorry to say this, but as a Business Owner or a Manager it is a fantastic tool. The biggest disputes we have with guys we employ and clients is always about money against hours worked, this just confirms or takes away the operatives or customers argument in an instant. (Still doesnt indicate what they have actuallly produced in those hours thank fu*k!!! or I'd be out on my ar*e!!)
If you are that way inclined it also measures AFR (Accident Frequency Rates) enabling Safety Bods to identify trends etc.

In regards legality....These are difficult times and I fully respect an individuals choice in not wanting to rock the boat, but, if this system was not covered in your original Contract of Employment and you have not been consulted in regard to its implementation other than to say you will now use it (Amendment to your Contract of Employment) then I cant see how they can make it mandortory.

Best of luck anyway!!



 

I have an idea that most employment contracts contain a clause stating that the empoyee will "comply with the reasonable instructions of the employer" or something like that. So there seems to be little likelyhood of an amendment to the contract being necessary.
In view of the fact that as PP puts it " as a Business Owner or a Manager it is a fantastic tool" it's hard to see why its implementation should not be seen as reasonable.
Just my (legal) tuppenceworth.

[dukla]

I rather think you're getting your knickers twisted over nothing. Biometric employee entry systems ensure that fingerprint data is stored as a mathematical algorithm and cannot be used for any purpose other than identifying the employee for data collection purposes.

I have come across this issue wrt library access at school. The reality is a system as per Kpy describes is no big deal: they scan your finger (you should have a choice which one) and produce a numerical pattern that is stored. (Which is merely a selection of points, not the whole print) thereafter, everytime you shove your finger in it calculates the pattern and compares that to the ones in the database.

The key issue with this kind of system is that they should be able to readily confirm that at no stage is your fingerprint itself stored. And equally even if they do send a DVD of all staff data to China, at best someone could reproduce say 5 of the unique features of one of your fingers (and not know how many others of the same finger they are missing). Nevertheless they should also commit to deleting your entry when your employment ceases.