Mark Hales found liable in Piper 917 engine damage case.

[Steve Pyro]

Interesting talking point ?

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/miscellaneous/mark-hales-found-liable-in-piper-case/

What liability does a driver have when he 'borrows' a classic car for an event such as LM Classic?

[Lorry]

I think it varies from deal to deal, but its usually a "bend it and mend it" system covered by insurance.

Deals vary from rental to drivers being paid to run the car - it depends how good or rich you are.

[Jules G]

The Legals are over on this site:

http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/news.html

The days of a gentleman's hand shake are long gone. This will set the precedent for all future magazine articles and I guess a further nail in the coffin for printed motoring magazines. The manufacturers do not mind new press cars being trashed but the interesting stuff we are all interested to see and read about may well be kept under lock and key. If they do come out to play at Goodwood or LM Classic maybe a condition of the event is that the promoter has to cover some of the cost? That only means one thing, a hike in admission price!  As for specialist articles, unless you have a global syndication for the article and each publisher will contribute to the insurance cover we are starting to see the stead decline. Again, price of the magazine will go up.

[Kev_mk3]

The Legals are over on this site:

http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/news.html

The days of a gentleman's hand shake are long gone. This will set the precedent for all future magazine articles and I guess a further nail in the coffin for printed motoring magazines. The manufacturers do not mind new press cars being trashed but the interesting stuff we are all interested to see may well be kept under lock and key for either articles or specialist events. If they do come out to play at Goodwood or LM Classic maybe a condition of the event is that the promoter has to cover some of the cost? That only means one thing, a hike in admission price! 

I actually know Andrew, extremely nice man in fact.

[Steve Pyro]

I've just trawled through the 19 pages of the judgement which makes interesting reading.

[pretzel]

Very sad to read this and agree with others it will probably have far reaching consequences.  I too took a look at the whole judgement thing (sad I know)..

Interesting that in the judgement section of the document (section 39) it states that the defendant 'failed properly engage gear' and was therefore deemed to have 'voer run' the engine. Given this is the crux of the whole thing you would have thought they would have spelt it correcty.......

[Jules G]

Very sad to read this and agree with others it will probably have far reaching consequences.  I too took a look at the whole judgement thing (sad I know)..

Interesting that in the judgement section of the document (section 39) it states that the defendant 'failed properly engage gear' and was therefore deemed to have 'voer run' the engine. Given this is the crux of the whole thing you would have thought they would have spelt it correcty.......

and also point 8 on page "river" missed the "D"

The Legals are over on this site:

http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/news.html

The days of a gentleman's hand shake are long gone. This will set the precedent for all future magazine articles and I guess a further nail in the coffin for printed motoring magazines. The manufacturers do not mind new press cars being trashed but the interesting stuff we are all interested to see may well be kept under lock and key for either articles or specialist events. If they do come out to play at Goodwood or LM Classic maybe a condition of the event is that the promoter has to cover some of the cost? That only means one thing, a hike in admission price! 

I actually know Andrew, extremely nice man in fact.

IS this a professional friend Kev? if so how many points did he save you from

[mgmark]

What a crying shame that something like this reaches this point... If you're rich enough and/or old enough that you can own it, but you're too old too drive it and want to show it off and/or make a buck or two, then don't get upset when it gets broken...    

And - this was a "repliica" built using some original parts, not an original 917...

MG Mark

[geoffd]

I guess this begs the question to any of us, that if we leant a car to a friend and they blew up the engine would we expect them to at least contribute to the rebuild costs? I know i certainly would, and had I been the borrower of said car I would certainly have offered to pay or make a contribution at least.  It would be the gentlemanly thing to do surely?

Biggest problem is that the engine and gearbox can't be covered by an (affordable) insurance scheme apparently.
So both parties should agree before hand about any uninsured losses, it's not rocket science, and shouldn't really have any impact on magazines borrowing cars, just standard business practice.

[Steve Pyro]

Reading between the lines of the 19 page judgement, it looks like it was 'assumed' that the engine damage would be claimable on insurance.
When RSA declined the claim, Mark Hales was left to pick up the pieces.  His defence sounds to be a bit contradictory and without substance.
The section as to whether it was a contract between 2 limited liability companies or 2 private individuals is interesting.

[Grand_Fromage]

There are a lot of outpourings of sympathy for Hales among journos, and readership of classic motorsport publications, and that is to be expected.

Personally, I think he was the victim of assumption and misjudgement, and I don't think it will spell the end of track tests of classic racing cars as some alarmists have touted. Piper is painted as the villain in the press, but I can see his point. If a car breaks on your watch for whatever reason, if you have accepted responsibility for it during your test, you foot the bill. I'm sure Hales would have been happy to accept liability if his insurance had paid-up, but it appears that he was left holding the baby and back-pedalling furiously on the liability issue. It was destined from the outset to end badly for him.

[Brad Zarse]

The issue I have with this, is that Hales has been made to repair a gearbox, back to new - to replace a gearbox which had been worn down by countless other drivers, including the owner.  His contribution to the wear which caused the failure, was a minute part of the reason it failed - a 917 of that age, is always going to be a ticking time bomb and Hales just happened to be holding it when the time ran out.

The thing I find most annoying though, is that, as if to add insult to injury, Piper claimed an additional £10k, for the earnings lost from the car being out of action.  £10k to a millionaire like him, is pocket change - but it's a big difference to a jobbing journo who's about to lose his house for doing his job.  

I also believe the car was sold for a significant profit shortly afterwards (Although I'm not sure how accurate that info is).  

Is this Piper bloke the same guy who built the 1969 Piper GTR LM car?  Based in Emmbrook, Wokingham?
  

[Steve Pyro]

Did you read it Brad?  It was the engine that blew up (and needed repair) because of a missed gear.

Not sure how you think that the car was "sold for a significant profit shortly afterwards".  I'm sure it was sold purely at market value / what a buyer was prepared to pay.

[Nordic]

The piper gtr was nothing to do with David piper.

Piper was a farmer made richer when the m1 cut thru his family farm. He has owned and raced most of the iconic sportcars of the 60s and 70s.

He was the typical gentleman racer of his era and lost a part of his leg during the filming of 'le man's'. Ferrari supplied his cars in BP green.

The 917 in question was made up from spares and new chassis. Piper still has his genuine car.

Richard Atwood testified that the gearbox was fine when he drove it a month before. Hales mistake seems to have been to not insure fully and them admit he did over rev before backtracking.

Piper has come out of this looking a bit pompous, but at the bed of the day why should he pay to make good damage caused by another.

[Lorry]

I'm not too happy with Octane magazine, as it was only when they refused to pay up that Piper went against Hales, who was driving the car for their benefit, not his.