Hurricane on US gulf coast

[hgb]

Ballast, when I read John's view I instantly saw the sarcasm behind it. And I bet that was his intention. After all the media was there before any official knew what had happened. Also, broadcasting the pictures of the devastation out to the world made clear that the situation is worse than expected and help is needed quickly.

What strikes me is that if poorer regions are hit international help (international Red Cross etc.) rolls in a lot quicker than if richer regions are hit. You can even see that here in Germany. Some years ago the eastern part of Germany was hit by floods and help was organised immediately. A couple of weeks ago south Germany was hit also by floods and nobody seemed to care.

This is not meant as criticism but only my perception.

[jpchenet]

Andy, the "Bush Bashing" (what a wonderful phrase) was a single post from an American about America, clearly stating that if there armed forces were availabel for local issues instead of sitting in the Iraqi desert then things could have been better! I believe that is a simple fact! And one shared by a hell of a lot of Americans. I think there have been far more comments about state authorities.

With regard to helicopters. The4 US Army has approx 6000 helicopters. This does not take into account Air Force or Navy birds, or civilian ones. If the can carry on average 15 people per trip (possibly more) then that is 90,000 people per flight. They have a range of about 500 miles, so accessing the ares should not be a problem. At teh same time that they are flying in to collect people, they could have been distributing fresh water, food and blankets to those who would be waiting for a further airlift.

With regard to what is a safe distance for some pre-loaded relief trucks is, I'd say pretty much teh same distance as the networks satellites trucks were positioned. As for how much notice they had, pretty much the same notice that the networks satellite trucks had who maaneged to get in position in plenty of time.

As for the teenage boy (read "HERO" in my mind) who is now possibly going to be charged with taking and driving away, I think this just about confirms Fax's thoughts as to why he is embarrassed to be an American. As you've asked yourself, why didn't they use the school buses to evacuate the old and the vulnerable.

At the end of the day, they had the warning. They then had the transport and resources both pre and post hurricane. Why the hell didn't they use them.

[jpchenet]

Courtesy of www.military.com


Top Pentagon Brass Defend Response Time

USA Today   |  September 07, 2005

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon's top officials said Tuesday that the military responded quickly to Hurricane Katrina, although it took nearly four days for troops to begin delivering large amounts of food and water to storm victims. 
 

"Not only was there no delay, I think we anticipated in most cases -- not in all cases, but in most cases -- the support that was required," Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at a Pentagon news conference.

Storm victims in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama complained bitterly that the military didn't start large-scale delivery of provisions until Friday. Some military helicopters began search-and-rescue operations Aug. 30.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said he had appointed Navy Adm. Edmund Giambastiani to study the military's response to Hurricane Katrina to determine whether any mistakes were made. Giambastiani, a close Rumsfeld ally, is vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The commander of the first large Navy ship to participate in relief efforts said last week that she was notified the night of Aug. 28 -- the day before the storm hit -- that her vessel might be needed to provide relief. But she wasn't told to do so until late Aug. 30, the day flooding started in New Orleans, she said.

"I've got sailors I could send to the beach, but I can't force myself on people," Capt. Nora Tyson said Friday in an interview on the bridge of her ship, the USS Bataan.

Myers said military officials worked from the afternoon of Aug. 30 through the morning of Aug. 31 to assess the situation in New Orleans and decide what to do.

Myers and Rumsfeld said the military had planned its hurricane response but was caught off guard by the flooding. Experts, including those from the Army Corps of Engineers, have predicted for years that a hurricane as large as Katrina could cause widespread flooding in New Orleans.

[Ballast]

Ballast, when I read John's view I instantly saw the sarcasm behind it.

If that is the case then I ask Johns forgiveness.

[Fax]

I'm not going to apologize for my Bush bashing for one second!  The ball was dropped at all levels, local, state and federal.  I've heard more piss-poor excuses and finger pointing from everyone involved.  Interesting, that the reason given for not getting aid to the New Orelans convention center was that it wasn't accessible from the interstate but it took a NBC crew ten minutes to get there.  My remarks were made about Bush in the days immediatly after the hurricane when I was hearing the same bullshit from him that we've been hearing for three years now about Iraq, that all is going to plan and all is well.  I stand by what I said before, they knew it was coming and everyone just sat on their asses.
Fax

[smokie]

Also in Kate's defence, she was quoting someone else's words too...


My own opinion from what I've seen and heard is that some enormous bollocks have been dropped on all sides. For me, first target would be a bloke on CNN who had a title like "Director of Enormously Big Emergencies" for some quasi govt agency. He said that since 9/11 billions of dollars had been spent on disaster planning, and all the expenditure was unaccountable to anyone. He said that no-one in government had questioned where the money was going. But most amazingly, that they hadn't even considered a disaster of this scale - they could deal with bombings, chemicals, fire - but only on a much smaller local level. It was unprecedented, he said. OK, you could understand if it was only their sideline, but this whole agency was dedicated to assessing risk and planning for disaster.

Heads must roll, somewhere.

[Fax]

Probably the bloke you saw was the head of FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency)  which is under the direction of the Dept. of Homeland Security (another federal agency). As you said, this is the first real test of all of the plans and billions we've spent preparing for this sort of calamity.  If I'm Osama, I'm feeling pretty confident I can wreak untold havoc and and the US government will around like a big beaurocratic headless chicken.
Fax

[johnevans3]

Hey,
I'm back guys and have been reading the aftermath of Kate's, Fax's and my messages.  I'm sorry to have confused some of you with my Texas sarcasm about the media (if you saw live reports of those idiots getting out in the storm with 100+ winds to show you how hard it is to stand up, you would know these are not responsible, level-headed people and as some would say, if they had two neurons firing at the same time in their brain, they would electrocute themselves.)    But down here in Texas, bullsh*t is just plain old bullsh*t.... and there is plenty of it to spread pretty far and pretty deep. 
It should be clear that some things clearly did not work.  I am prayerful that not only the US but the whole planet has learned from this and just might be smart enough to not forget the lessons heaved upon us at the expensive of many lives and broken hearts.
For those of you who met Larry, I spoke with him via cellphone and he says "We are OK and we're going to make it".  He thanked everyone for their prayers and concerns.   
We get thru these kind of things by pulling together now and reviewing/correcting after the crisis.

[Doris]

If I'm Osama, I'm feeling pretty confident I can wreak untold havoc and and the US government will around like a big beaurocratic headless chicken.
Fax

Fax - It would appear the New Zealand press are with you on this....

[mal]

Maybe not now until the relief and rescues are fully complete, but to me the biggest question to be asked is why the levees and flood defences have not been upgraded over the years. It is common knowledge that New Orleans is a risk from flooding through the levees and it doesnt take much research to find that credible warnings of this potential have been largley ignored for decades.

Having said that now reality is here I find it difficult to comprehend the size of the area affected, but it still shouldnt take 5 days to get BASIC relief to those people stranded.

[Nordic]

Bush has now made it to Mississippi.

[Andy Zarse]

All together now: "... drove my Chevy to the levy..."

[Bob U]

Maybe Bush is singing the greatest hits of katrina and the Waves

[jpchenet]

A spokesman for the 60's band The Animals has made a public apology.

Apparently there isn't a house in New Orleans!!!

 

[smokie]

Very amusant so far but careful how far you go with the poor taste jokes please...