Did we have a thread

[Paddy_NL]

women

http://media.putfile.com/Designa-Schranke-Web

[rcutler]

Peter, There is a documentary that crops up on Discovery Wings every month or so called "The Last Gunfighter". It profiles the development and deployment of the F-8 Crusader, very interesting and some great footage of it in action in Vietnam. What amazed me is the length of time it has been in service, even seeing action in the Gulf War.
If I see it is showing again I will DVD it and send it to you.

Bob

In terms of long serving aircraft, one of all time greats is about to retire for good and anyone who was lucky enough to be at RAF Marham may have caught sight of an EE Canberra, nearly 50 years service.  The last dual control version stood down a couple of months ago and the last photo-reconnaissance versions are finishing mapping in Afghanistan.

At least some are flying in private hands for a while.

we were at Marham and stayed on Sunday night so saw two Tornadoes taking off and the 5 canberra's out for checks. The Canberras are due to retire next year leaving a gaping great big hole in our reconnisance as no replacement has been built.

[Ferrari Spider]

Peter, There is a documentary that crops up on Discovery Wings every month or so called "The Last Gunfighter". It profiles the development and deployment of the F-8 Crusader, very interesting and some great footage of it in action in Vietnam. What amazed me is the length of time it has been in service, even seeing action in the Gulf War.
If I see it is showing again I will DVD it and send it to you.

Bob

In terms of long serving aircraft, one of all time greats is about to retire for good and anyone who was lucky enough to be at RAF Marham may have caught sight of an EE Canberra, nearly 50 years service.  The last dual control version stood down a couple of months ago and the last photo-reconnaissance versions are finishing mapping in Afghanistan.

At least some are flying in private hands for a while.

we were at Marham and stayed on Sunday night so saw two Tornadoes taking off and the 5 canberra's out for checks. The Canberras are due to retire next year leaving a gaping great big hole in our reconnisance as no replacement has been built.

Rick, not to up on the modern RAF inventory, but I think you will find the Tornado GR 4a http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/tornado_rec.html has been in this role for a number of years, the jaguar also http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/jaguar.html but i think their days are drawing to a close.

[rcutler]

Not too up on the roles, but the base at Marham does run Tornadoes. But Mark mentioned something about the canberra leaving a gap. It may have been the sheer hight the plane could take photo's at??

[Ferrari Spider]

Rick, it probably is something to do with the types of image the canberra can take?  Depending on the package the aircraft is tasked with.  My brief contact with the Tornado force, the Reece was all low level, night at high speed. 

[Andy Zarse]

Peter, I think Rick is right, Mark told me the same thing. Think the Canberra has a max ceiling of around 15,000ft above that of anything else in the Airforce, ceratinly well above anything a Tornado can muster. It's all to do with the wings or something. And as there is no direct PRC replacement, the military BigWigs are hoping satellites will do the job. But as Mark said, they're not much use at seeing through clouds.

[rcutler]

That was the same hight and reason I remembered Mark saying so it must be the right reason.

Reminds me of joke:-  (Women don't take offence it is a joke.


What have wives and clouds got in common?

Ans:
At some point they will F**K off and it will be a beautiful day!!!

[Lorry]

It must relate to the technology too.  Those enormous film cameras are dinosaurs - everything must be digital nowadays

[Ferrari Spider]

Wasn't there so unable to comment.  15,000ft doesn't sound correct, max ceiling for the Canberra is about 54,000ft, Tornado ADV's are about 60,000ft + and probably a little less for the GR versions.

15,000ft probably relates to the type of image the Canberra can obtain maybe using a strategic mapping camera with "film" using the visible part of the spectrum as opposed IR and side scan radar images.

As an aside, PR aircraft always seem to come from existing airframes, which are then adapted, can't think of a purpose built PR aircraft?  I may be wrong, even aircraft like the Blackbird SR-71 was originally an interceptor.  If memory serves me correct before the Canberra it would have been the Valliant’s, Victors and Vulcan’s from the V force that would fulfilled this role.

Perhaps Mark can help us out.  I've always been fascinated with reconnaissance.

[Perdu]

FS the initial A thingy (A-12?)was "said" to be an interceptor but wasn't ever truly considered. It seems likely it was a scam to get the black budget agreed.

I dont think there ever was a threat that would be encountered at their ceiling except another Blackbird...

Doesn't the PR Cranberry have a much enhanced altitude due to the extended wing, been out of "Plane spotting!" for so long now the numbers escape me. A greater sign that I am getting old-er

 

[mgmark]

Hi Guys,

Plenty of info and nice piccies at :
http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/gallery/index.htm

Rick and Andy;s recollections are correct and you have quoted the Canberra ceiling correctly - no extended wing.   Tornado GR4a as per the link you will see is 36,000.   F3 would really struggle - it is essentially the same jet with a radar in the nose and a couple of plugs in the fuselage to carry more fuel.   Our last operational T4 flew its final ferryflight to Air Atlantique at Coventry airport at the beginning of this month and the PR9 remains in service until 39 Sqn disband around July 2006.   After that something will do the job.   The fact that it flies so much higher is simply because that is what it was designed to do, with a thick, low load wing - not quite what the Tornado has!   High = strategic, Low = tactical, and lots depends on what kit is fitted.   Satellites are marvellous but aren't as flexible a platform as an aircraft.   More to come when I've got a bit more time, all the best for now,

MG Mark

Canberras never flew off carriers, the B-57 was the US variant with different engines and the Indian air foce still has a squadron of Canberras.   Shackleton was a similar configuration to the Lancaster, with 4 Rolls-Royce Griffon engines with contra-props - 80,000 rivets in close formation!   And don;t forget the glorious Lightning and Phantom

[Ferrari Spider]

FS the initial A thingy (A-12?)was "said" to be an interceptor but wasn't ever truly considered. It seems likely it was a scam to get the black budget agreed.

I dont think there ever was a threat that would be encountered at their ceiling except another Blackbird...

Doesn't the PR Cranberry have a much enhanced altitude due to the extended wing, been out of "Plane spotting!" for so long now the numbers escape me. A greater sign that I am getting old-er

 

Bill the A-12 was originally designed as an interceptor and it carried two internal AAM

[Perdu]

Yerss, I thought that was what it was. wouldnt have fancied flying at Mach numptynump and opening bay doors to dump AAMs into the airstream way up there myself though! I remember the A-12 nose had a different profile to the Blackbird too, sort of sticky out bit in front of the strakes, with extra pitots on it too.

I expect the Martin EB57 thingys were way up in the air a bit more then.

I was surprised to hear of Shacks having six engines at some time. I never saw any but Griffon engined versions, though I suppose APUs could be counted as engines...

If any of you visit the RAF Museum at Cosford there is a model display inside the twin hangars near the museum shop/cafe/office. Two of the models on display there are mine. One is the Shackleton AEW2 I made back in the eighties. It certainly only had Griffons.

But Lightnings! Don't you get me started on about them...

 

[Steve Pyro]

Bill, I think the reference to 6 engined Shackletons is a paired engined nacelle with contra rotating props, like the Double Mamba in the old Navy Gannets.

[Fran]

But of course Steve, thanks for sorting that one out....